[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Re: avidya vs maayaa - What is the difference? - Part 4

[kuntimaddi sadananda]

Venkatraghavan:  If it is antahkaraNam, then you willalso have to say avidyA is abhAvarUpa - Otherwise how can avidyA existing inkAraNa sharIra cause vikshepa existing in antahkaraNam to be activated?  Sada: 
It is just ignorance or avidyawhich covers the knowledge – it has no ruupa, bhaava or abhaava. In deep sleepstate that is what it is. In the dream and waking state, the mind is nowunfolded and with the unfolding comes a viskehpa – a property of the mind sincefor vikshepa some knowledge is required. vikshepa depends on the knowledge storedin the mind and the partial ignorance. For example, ignorance just covers thetruth that it is a rope – however there is a partial knowledge that there is anobject with say 5ft long, soft when stepped on it and is lying on the alley. Ifit is complete ignorance no projection either. Therefore it it is the mind thathas partial knowledge that has vikshepa Shakti. In addition the projectedobject comes from its memory where previous knowledge of snake is stored.  Therefore idt is not the property of ignoranceper sec. Unfolded mind is the potential mind (since chidaabhaasa is there) thatcan create based on the know-how knowledge gained from the past. Jeeva’s mind cannot change IswarasRiShTi including the universal laws but can learn to adopt them and make useof them to create new things. I do not see any problem in having vikshepaShakti without any connection to avidya. Partial knowledge may motivate themind the need to exercise its vikshepa Shakti; but avidya cannot the not material cause for projection. ------------------------. Venkatraghavan: Thus every vishaya ajnAna means lackof knowledge of that vishayA in the mind, leading to vikshepa of that vishayaas something else.  Sada:  The first part I agree. The second part is –it may motivate the mind to unfold its vikshepa Shakti – for some, ignoranceneed not motivate at all. I am ignorant of Italian language. That ignorance isnot leading me to project Telugu when I hear Italian, just because some oneclaimed that Telugu is Italian of the East. I will just claim that I do not know that language. The partial knowledgecan motivate the mind to project the rest. Hence adhyaasa occurs only whenthere is half-backed knowledge. That is the essence of adyaasa, as Iunderstand.-----------------------Venkatraghavan: Extending this argument, if allajnAna is only antah karaNa dharma, what is the need to postulate a kAraNasharIra, but that is not a position that you want to take, I think. Sada – Kaarana shareera is only whenthe mind is folded – the folded mind has the vaasanaas in the causal state. Forthem to express as desires, buddhi is needed. When is awake then manifestationsin terms of desire in the intellect, agitations in the mind and actions at thebody level. Hence folded mind with potential vaasanaas is the kaarana shareera.Just folded mind with ignorance is called anandamaya kosha. Vaasanaas come dueto jeeva viksepa that I am = this which is the essence of ego. yushmat ashmatpratyaya gochara yoH.. One can be vaaasana less but remainwith moola avidha unless that mind dis-covers  aham brahaamasi using a pramaana.  Personally I do not see any logicalproblems, if I delink avarana as avidya and viskehpa with maaya (jeevan maayaand Iswara maaya) since jeeva also creates as in dream example.  Happy to learn if there are furtherlogical problem in the model.  Hari Om!Sadananda