[Advaita-l] avidya vs maayaa - What is the difference? Part III

[kuntimaddi sadananda]

Venkatraghavan: If he only does the former, but notthe latter, we end up with sAnkhya darshana, where the jIva identifies withkUtastha, but still attributes reality to prakriti, seen in the form of theworld. This would lead to advaitahAni. Therefore, a second step to negate mAyawould be needed in your state. This obviously hurts the principle of lAghava,which was the one of the advantages of the proposal in the first place.  Sada:  Venkatraghavanji –separation occurs by jnaanam while a jnaani becomes a jeevan mukta. He will beseeing Iswara sRiShti as part of Iswara’s vibhuti or his own vibhuti since hehas moved from jeeva-jagat-Iswara triad to aatma-anaatma binary format. IswarasRishTi remains as long as jnaani’s BMI which is a product of Iswara sRiShTiremains.  I am not sure I understand therest of your arguments. ----------------------------------Venkatraghavan: The purpose of shAstra is to givemoksha, so any system should not only be internally consistent, it should alsoseek to achieve that purpose in the easiest manner possible.  Sada: 

Indeed Yes, that is true. As peradvaita, moksha involves understanding as a fact that I am already liberated orI am Brahman and taking myself what I am not is due to avidya which is gone bythe knowledge of who really I am. This is not compromised by making avidya thatcauses aavarana and maaya that cause vikshepa. Avidya that I am limited guy(desha-kaala-vastu paricchinnatvam) is gone by vidya. The rest is IswarasRiShTi beyond the individual mind. Therefore a jeevan mukta sees as vibhuti. 
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Venkatraghavan – from the secondmail:
Namaste SadAji
You can ignore the multiple Ishvara , multiple jagat point, because as per
your system, avidyA will be many, but mAya is only one.

However, one more point which you mentioned, but I did not refer to in KY
email previously:

4) if the purpose of this formulation is to explain the continued
perception of the world, even after jnAna removes avidyA, one need not do
this. The appearance of the world is no proof of either the existence of
the world or it's creation. One need not postulate Ishvara srishTi to
explain continued appearance to jnAnis. Mirage water continues to be seen
even if one knows it's a mirage. One need not say "God created it" to
explain it's continued appearance after sublating knowledge. ----------------- Sada: 

Venkatraghavanji – Iswara sRishti isonly when I identify I am separate from the rest of the world due to avidya.When I have gained the knowledge that there is absolutely nothing real otherthan me, everything that I perceive comes under anaatma, since perception viaBMI will continue as before. The understanding now will be it is my own vibhutisince mahaavaakyas help me understand that there are no separate Iswara sRishTi.pasyam me yogamaiswaram – Look at my glory Arjuna.  With avidya gone, I am moving fromjeeva-Iswara-jagat triangular format to the binary format of aatma-anaatma. Yesat transactional level – there is a teacher and there are students and theteaching is going on. Hence knowledge does not eliminate viskhepa aspect; onlytrasforms the sRiShti as vibhuti – of myown self or to be more polite – Iswaravibhuti. Jnaani can also pray and see Iswara as though separate – and yet canunderstand that what is there is pure self that I am. Mirage waters will beseen as mirage waters and one can glorify the beauty of creation that a drysand and at a glancing angle sunlight gives the impression of waters. That isall part of vibhuti only.  Addition to the above.  I amconsidering praatibhasika adhyaas  comes under jeeva sRiShTi whilevyaavahaarika adhyaasa comes under Iswara sRiShTi. Dream creation is a commonexample of jeeva sRiShTi. Both aavarana and vishepa are involved. 

The mirage waters, the sunrise andsunset, blue sky, pencil appearing as bending in water when placed half way,etc, are  not jeeva sRiShTi as evidenced by the fact that is notsubjective error but objective error in the sense that everybody sees. It ispart of Iswra sRiShTi and hence knowledge that sun does not rise or set viashastra pramana does not eliminate it since it is not jeeva’s creation.  Hope I am clear.
Hari Om!Sadananda