[Advaita-l] If Jagat is Satya like Brahman

[Venkatesh Murthy (वेङ्कटेशः सीतारामार्यपुत्रः)]

 Namaste
 On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Shashwata Shastri
<shashwata.unimas at gmail.com> wrote:
> Namaste,
>
> Now my question is-
>
> //////Everything is Brahman and Jagat is also Brahman. Therefore Jagat is
> Satya only not Mithya. Everything in the world is Satya and Brahman
> only. This argument will have objection by Dvaitis like this. If
> everything is Brahman and Satya the dog's excreta lying in the street
> is also Satya and Brahman. What is the difference between you and that
> dog's excreta? You both are the same. /////
>
> Why are they enforcing their identification method on Non-Dualism? According
> to us there is nothing to compare between the objects anymore since there
> are no - I and dog excreta. Both of them are Brahman. Where does a dvaiti
> find the forms when there is nothing but Brahman. He did agree to the part-
> "Everything is Brahman". Now why such a comparison after agreeing?


They are using debate tactics. In a debate you can accept Opponent's
view and prove it is leading to wrong conclusions. Dvaitis will first
accept Advaitis view Everything is Brahman. Then they are trying to
prove it is leading to wrong conclusion like dog's excreta and you are
the same. But the problem is the Logic they are using is not correct.
Therefore there is no wrong conclusion in Advaita.

But there is another debate these days started by Sri Bhaskar. He is
also saying Jagat is Satya but not Mithya. I like to point the problem
with his view also. He also must accept Jagat is Mithya. Otherwise he
will get the wrong conclusion of dog's excreta and person will be the
same.

>
> Shashwata Chowdhury
>
> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 5:09 AM, Venkatesh Murthy (वेङ्कटेशः
> सीतारामार्यपुत्रः) <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>> Namaste
>> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 2:14 AM, Shashwata Shastri <
>> shashwata.unimas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Namaste,
>> >
>> > One thing do puzzles me Venktesh Ji. If they agree to the concept of
>> > Brahman and dog excreta being one how come they identify the dog excreta
>> > being different from Brahman itself? Doesn't that point towards dualism
>> > ultimately?
>> >
>>
>> Yes they believe in Dualism Utlimately to the extreme extent and say Jeeva
>> is not Brahman even in Moksha. It is always separate from Brahman. That
>> is why they are Dvaitis.  Dvaita is Dualism.
>>
>> >
>> > Best Regards,
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>>
>> >
>> > Shashwata Chowdhury
>> >
>> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Venkatesh Murthy (वेङ्कटेशः
>> > सीतारामार्यपुत्रः) <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >>  Pranams Sri Sadananda
>> >>
>> >> I like your response. If the Dvaiti asks a scientist if everything is
>> >> electrons, neutrons and protons why he will not eat garbage but eat
>> >> food what will scientist say? He will say yes everything is electrons,
>> >> neutrons and protons but from practical Vyavahara view garbage and
>> >> food are not the same.
>> >>
>> >>  Another thing is when someone says dog's excreta is Brahman he is
>> >> putting a restriction on Brahman. Brahman is not only dog's excreta
>> >> but it is the road where the dog's excreta is lying. Brahman is the
>> >> city where the road is existing. Brahman is the country where the city
>> >> is existing. Brahman is the Earth where the country is existing.
>> >> Brahman is the Solar System where Earth is existing. Brahman is Galaxy
>> >> where Solar System is existing and Brahman is the entire Universe
>> >> where all Galaxies are existing. If Brahman is everything it is wrong
>> >> to say only one or two things are Brahman and say they are not
>> >> different. It is bad logic Kutarka.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 4:39 PM, kuntimaddi sadananda
>> >> <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> > PraNAms
>> >> >
>> >> > If I say - everything is nothing but electrons-protons-neutrons -
>> >> > these
>> >> are being fundamental particles - then, garbage is also made up of the
>> >> same
>> >> fundamental particles and so is the delicious food on the table. Just
>> >> because they are fundamentally the same, does not mean that one should
>> >> not
>> >> discriminate the stinking garbage from the delicious food. The
>> >> differences
>> >> are at the package level with names, attributes, utilities etc,  being
>> >> different. Dvaitins have problem in understanding these fundamental
>> >> truth.
>> >> Everything including dog,s excrete is Brahman only - but as
>> >> adhishtaanam -
>> >> that includes even the dvaitins. Brahman being infinite cannot exclude
>> >> anything.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mithya involves - that which undergoes changes - as Goudapaada -
>> >> illustrates in the vaitatya prakaranam. Brahman cannot undergo change -
>> >> because it is infinite. Yet Brahman cannot but be the adhishtaanam for
>> >> everything - that includes dog's excreta and dvatins.
>> >> >
>> >> > Krishna first discusses in 10th chapter - vibhuuti - all glorified
>> >> things - saying in the end that unlimited are His glories.  In the next
>> >> chapter, 11, He shows that not only good things but even bad things are
>> >> also part of his vishwaruupa - we have one side gods and the other side
>> >> all
>> >> demons too, since being Brahman, he cannot exclude anything. Arjuna was
>> >> afraid of the scene. The fact  is nothing REALLY in Brahman. Hence the
>> >> statements - mastaani sarva bhuutani and immediately Krishna says - na
>> >> cha
>> >> mastaani bhuutani.
>> >> >
>> >> > Everything including the dog's excreta is Brahman only yet from
>> >> > Brahman
>> >> point nothing or no-thing is Brahman. There are no dvaitins in Brahman!
>> >> It
>> >> is a-dvaita!
>> >> >
>> >> > Hari Om!
>> >> > Sadananda
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --------------------------------------------
>> >> > On Tue, 4/5/16, Venkatesh Murthy (वेङ्कटेशः सीतारामार्यपुत्रः) via
>> >> Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >  Subject: [Advaita-l] If Jagat is Satya like Brahman
>> >> >  To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
>> >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> >> >  Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2016, 11:58 PM
>> >> >
>> >> >  Namaste
>> >> >
>> >> >  Everything is Brahman and Jagat is also Brahman. Therefore
>> >> >  Jagat is
>> >> >  Satya only not Mithya. Everything in the world is Satya and
>> >> >  Brahman
>> >> >  only. This argument will have objection by Dvaitis like
>> >> >  this. If
>> >> >  everything is Brahman and Satya the dog's excreta lying in
>> >> >  the street
>> >> >  is also Satya and Brahman. What is the difference between
>> >> >  you and that
>> >> >  dog's excreta? You both are the same.
>> >> >
>> >> >  Therefore to avoid becoming same as dog's excreta we have to
>> >> >  say Jagat
>> >> >  and everything in Jagat is Mithya. Dog's excreta is also
>> >> >  Mithya only.
>> >> >  It is not Satya. But Sruti has said Tat Tvam Asi and Aham
>> >> >  Brahmasmi.
>> >> >  Therefore I am not Mithya. I am Brahman. I am Satya.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >  --
>> >> >  Regards
>> >> >
>> >> >  -Venkatesh
>> >> >  _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Regards
>> >>
>> >> -Venkatesh
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>>
>> --
>> Regards
>>
>> -Venkatesh
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-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh