[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Why only jagat is mithya and jeeva is brahman !!??

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms 
Hare Krishna 

With this small note on srushti I would like to wind-up my shop for the day :-) 

The order of srushti is not similar in shruti.  Prashna says he created life from life faith, ether, air, light water, earth, senses, mind and food and subsequent srushti-s like mantra-s, tapas etc. from food. And mundaka gives spider example, Itareya starts Atma vA idameka evAgra Aseet and there is nothing else, sentient and non-sentient.  He thought let me create the worlds and he created this world.  chAndOgya too narrates the srushti story like Itareya sadeva soumya idamagra Aseet ekamevAdviteeyaM etc. taittereeya up. Says sOkAmayata, bahusyAm prajayeyeti sa tapOtapyata, idaM sarvam asrujata yadidaM kiMcha, tatsrushvA tadevAnuprAvishat etc. Here in these various accounts of creation, creation in the sense of giving rise to something out of nothing is unknown to the Upanishads.  Akshara without attributes is itself the stuff (essence) of this created universe.  And it continue to say this created universe, the parabrahman is the ONLY efficient and material cause.  

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar

-----Original Message-----
From: Advaita-l [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org] On Behalf Of Sunil Bhattacharjya via Advaita-l
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2016 10:25 PM
To: Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>; Srirudra <srirudra at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] Why only jagat is mithya and jeeva is brahman !!??

namste,

Why not also refer to Mundaka. He created the world like a spider creates its web.

Regards,
Sunil K. bhattacharjya


--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 4/2/16, Srirudra via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] Why only jagat is mithya and jeeva is	brahman !!??
 To: "Venkatraghavan S" <agnimile at gmail.com>, "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 Date: Saturday, April 2, 2016, 1:19 AM
 
 Dears
 Jagath is mithya in the sense that it is not as  it is with the efflux  of time.It is ever changing.Whereas  Brahman is ever as It is.It is changeless.
 Brahman only has become the Jagath .Why it  should become Jagath is variously answered.But there is no  Jagath and it is a mental construct says Mandukya .Why a  mental construct is answered as due to avidhya or  ignorance.
 Avidhya is also synonymous with
 Maya .Maya is like a veil which forbids understanding or  colouring the understanding of the exact Truth.
 The question now is when the Jiva is Brahman  why Jiva is not able to know that he is Brahman.Why Maya  which is an aspect of Brahman only should act as a veil to  delude Brahman.
 The examples like clay
 ,gold,snake,rope etc throw some light but still it is beyond  human thought or logic.May be it is  anirvachaniyam.R.Krishnamoorthy.
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 > On 02-Apr-2016, at 1:04 PM, Venkatraghavan  S via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 wrote:
 >
 > Namaste
 Sadaji, Chandramouliji,
 > I agree with
 the ideas in both your mails.
 >
 > The examples of pot/clay or ornament/gold  may not exactly apply to the  >  world/Brahman in all respects, but that is the nature of all  examples I  > suppose. Their utility is  limited to justifying something particular  > through one aspect of the drishtAnta.
 >
 > I will let Sadaji
 confirm, but I think he will agree with you  > Chandramouliji when you say the world is a  vivarta of Brahman.
 >
 > Regards,
 >
 Venkatraghavan
 > On 2 Apr 2016 8:09 a.m.,
 "H S Chandramouli" <hschandramouli at gmail.com>  > wrote:
 >
 >>
 >> Sri
 Sadananda Ji,
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> Pranams.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 Reg  << Jagat is Brahman only – but only as  apparent Brahman since  >>> Brahman  by definition cannot appear – anantatvaat – just as ring  is gold  >>> only. But one cannot  say really say ring = gold, since that limits the gold  >>> – and also we cannot really say  all ornaments = gold; as it negates the  >>> independent existence of gold  without being ornaments. One can only say  >>> gold appears as ring, >>.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 There are other statements also in your post conveying  similar meanings.
 >>> For
 example
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> <<  We cannot really say
 between Jagat and Brahman, but can say that  >>> with tongue in cheek just as we  say – between ring and gold. Are ring and  >>> bangle the same or different –  they are same from the point of adhiShTaanam  >>> even though from that reference  there is no ring even – as there are no  >>> being in Me. Are they different-  they are different only when we want to  >>> differentiate ring from bangle  from neckless. The problems of ring, bangle  >>> and neckless do not belong to gold  – na cha aham teshu avasthitaH. Hence  >>> for Rings, Bangles etc –  six-fold problems – asti – jaayate etc and these  >>> problems do not belong to gold.
 Hence if question is raised - are ornaments  >>> the same as gold –or  is jagat  same as Brahman – yes indeed – since Brahman  >>> is anantam. >>.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> I
 must confess I am constrained to differ.  Gold-ornament  relationship is  >>> one of pariNAma  whereas Brahman-jagat relationship in one of vivarta.The  >>> two should never in my opinion be  considered at par while analyzing  >>> mithytva of jagat. The same mixup  showsup in the following.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> Quote   << Are
 ornaments different from Brahman? Yes indeed, as they are  >>> only at the transactional level,  since the attributes of ornaments do not  >>> belong to Brahman – na cha aham  teshu avasthitaH. Gold can declare that all  >>> ornaments are in Me but really  there are no ornaments in Me; look at my  >>> glory. Gold can exists as  ornaments as well; and that is its vibhuuti- and  >>> gold can exist without being  ornaments.>>. Unquote  >>>  >>>  >>>  >>> In Brahman-ornament relationship  which is one of vivarta Brahman is  >>> “modified” into ornament  without losing its svarupa of Brahman. In other  >>> words Brahman continues to exist  in its own svarupa even as it is  >>> “modified” (appearance only )  as ornament. This is not so in the  >>> gold-ornament relationship which  is one of pariNAma. Here Gold loses its  >>> unmanifest svarupa when modified  as manifest ornament. Gold is no longer  >>> available in its unmanifest  svarupa.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> This is exactly what I had
 explained in detail in my response to the  >>> post by Sri Anand Ji. I am  reproducing it here for clarifying my position.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 Quote  << Most often it is not recognized that in the  statement  “mAyA  >>> as its  >>> material cause “, mAyA is the  unmanifest (अव्यक्त avyakta) form of the  >>> material cause while jagat is the  manifest (व्यक्त vyakta) effect (कार्य  kArya).
 >>> Since we are used to
 relating anything unknown to the known (manifest),  >>> perhaps "brahma satyaM  jaganmithyA" is more meaningful than "brahma  satyaM  >>> mAyA mithyA".
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 However it is very useful in understanding the applicability  of the  >>> wellknown Chandogya  statement concerning the pot-clay relationship <<  >>> वाचारम्भणं  विकारो नामधेयं  मृत्तिकेत्येव सत्यम्  >> (vAcArambhaNaM vikAro  >>>  nAmadheyaM mRttiketyeva satyam ). This is an illustration  for  >>> pariNAmikAraNa. Here  मृत्तिक (mRttika) refers to the unmanifest  clay in  >>> the pot-clay example.
 This statement can be extended upto <<
 वाचारम्भणं
 >>>
 विकारो नामधेयं मायैव
 सत्यम् >> (vAcArambhaNaM vikAro nAmadheyaM  mAyaiva  >>> satyam)  to explain  the pariNAmikAraNa  mAyA-jagat relationship. mAyA is  >>> the ultimate pariNAmikAraNa for  the jagat and is unmanifest while jagat is  >>> manifest. This is the limit to  which the Upanishadic statement quoted can  >>> be stretched .
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 However it is very often stretched further and misunderstood  to be  >>> applicable to the  Brahman-jagat relationship also by concluding  <<  >>> वाचारम्भणं  विकारो नामधेयं  ब्रह्मैव सत्यम् >>  (vAcArambhaNaM vikAro  >>>  nAmadheyaM brahmaiva satyam). This stretching is not  permissible since mAyA  >>> and  Brahman relate to two different levels of Reality and mAyA  is vivarta  >>> in Brahman and not a  pariNAma of Brahman. In fact I believe this is one of  >>> the basic misconception regarding  the Chandogya statement quoted above that  >>> is responsible for the wrong  notion about the relationship between Brahman  >>> and jagat as far as Reality is  concerned and is also quoted in support of  >>> such wrong notion. >>.
 Unquote.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> Please read it with the following
 correction also.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> Quote
 >>>
 
 >>>
 >>>
 
 >>> For <<
 वाचारम्भणं विकारो
 नामधेयं मायैव सत्यम्
 >. Please read  <<
 >>>
 वाचारम्भणं विकारो
 नामधेयं माया
 इत्येवसत्यम् >>( vAcArambhaNaM
 vikAro
 >>> nAmadheyaM mAyA ityeva
 satyam).
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> For  <<
 वाचारम्भणं विकारो
 नामधेयं ब्रह्मैव
 सत्यम् >> please read  <<
 >>> वाचारम्भणं
 विकारो नामधेयं
 ब्रह्मइत्येव सत्यम्
 >>( vAcArambhaNaM vikAro
 >>>
 nAmadheyaM brahma ityeva satyam). >>.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 Pranams and Regards
 >
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