[Advaita-l] Knowledge of Brahman

[V Subrahmanian]

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 8:40 PM, Harsha Bhat via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Jaldar sir,
>                            One interesting point here,
>
>                       According to advaitha in moksha or in  turya
> state,there will not be any swarupa jgnana,or knowledge of self  to athman.
>

The Turiya Atman is jnāna svarūpa: ekātma pratyaya sāram - Mandukya 7th
mantra. So, it is verily pure consciousness. The jiva-aspirant only
realizes this to be his true svarupa, thereby giving up the jīvatva
adhyāsa.  So, there is no situation of there is a jiva who has svarupa
jnana in the kaivalya.

>
> So,my question is ,if a person has swarupa jgnana ,then he may get affected
> by swarupa-agjnana or (maya).
>

This is not possible.  The shruti, Br.up. 1.4.10 only taught 'Brahman, that
did not know its svarupa, acquired that svarupa jnana and became infinite.'
There is no shruti pramana anywhere that once such realization is had,
there is a possibility of a return to samsara.  Shankara has stated this in
the BSB 2.1.14. So, that is the assurance that avidya/ajnāna will not
return. .

>
> But one who don't have swarupa jgnana ,(like stone)...will never get
> swarupa agnana...
>

This is not also possible.  The jiva, aspirant, who is adhikāri for vedanta
is not a jaḍa.  He has knowledge of his own sentiency; only that he thinks
that sentient entity to be a kartā-bhoktā, endowed with body, mind, etc.
and a samsāri.  This wrong idea is set right by the viveka that the ātma is
pure consicousness, akarta-abhokta, asamsārin.

>
> Or in other words maya or avaidhya can never affect nirguna...and make him
> feel that he is finite...
>

maya even while 'affecting', simultaneously makes him appear to be an
entity that is endowed with gunas.  If anyone asks for proof, it is the
arthāpatti pramana that comes from the Br.1.4.10 I have stated above.  If
Brahman comes to know itself as 'aham brahma asmi' and thereby comes to
experience its infinite nature, it is proved that brahman has not known its
true nature prior to that realization and thereby finds itself a finite
jiva. That is the proof.

>
> So,how you will prove the creation of this world here ...according to
> advaitha?
>

That very maya can project a whole world of other beings too. This is from
the jiva's angle.  From shāstra drishti, Brahman, the Omniscient, sarvajna,
can engage in creation. So, there is no dichotomy.

regards
vs

>
>
> regards,
> Harsha Bhat
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:49 AM, Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 7 Nov 2015, Harsha Bhat via Advaita-l wrote:
> >
> >  We get the moksha through the knowledge of brahman according to
> vedas,but
> >>
> >> 1)Infinite cannot be known by finite.
> >>
> >
> > The finite does not actually exist.  It only appears to do so because of
> > maya.
> >
> >
> > 2)Nirguna can never be known ,because suguna can be known through
> suguna's
> >> guna,but nirguna can never be known,because he is attribute less.
> >>
> >
> > As a consequence of 1, when the delusionary gunas are negated then what
> is
> > left is the nirguna brahman.
> >
> > 3)Nirguna cannot have knowledge.As knowledge is also a guna.
> >>
> >>
> > On Sat, 7 Nov 2015, Harsha Bhat via Advaita-l wrote:
> >
> > Sorry small change to my third point said above,
> >>
> >> 3)Nirguna cannot have knowledge,as HAVING knowledge is also a guna...
> >>
> >
> >
> > No only the conventional (vyavaharic) knowledge which is based on the
> > premise of duality is a guna.  From the paramarthic standpoint you do not
> > need to "know" Brahman because you are and always have been Brahman.
> Only
> > maya deluded you into forgetting that.
> >
> > --
> > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
> >
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