[Advaita-l] 'world' is not the mental creation of tiny soul !!

[V Subrahmanian]

On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 12:28 PM, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Sri Subhanu wrote << All will be familiar with Shankara’s frustratingly
> evasive responses to the question “whose is avidyā?” at BSB 4.1.3 and Gita
> 13.2, where the response is “to whomever is asking the question”.  >>.
>
> Sri Kuntimaddi wrote <<
> The best answer is - ignorance belongs to the one who does not know that he
> is Brahman >>
>
> Sri Subhanu responds
>
> <<  Sri Sadananda has summarised well the view of the tradition,( for which
> I had also given the references from Shankara and Suresvara) that
> "ignorance belongs to the one who does not know that he is Brahman..". >>
>

There is explicit reply in Shankara's bhashya to 1.4.10 of Br.up. (aham
brahma asmi) that it is Brahman that was ignorant of its true nature and it
is Brahman that acquired the knowledge of its true nature and became free
from all limitations.  This is because the very mantra is so constructed as
to give this natural explanation in the bhashya.

It is this that has led to the traditional statement 'brahmaiva svAvidyayA
samsarati iva, svavidyayA muchyata iva' ['Brahman alone, owing to its own
ignorance appears to be in bondage and owing to kowledge of its true
nature, appears to be liberated.']

Thus, to me there is nothing that is 'evasive' in the bhashyam on this
topic.  In two places in the same bhashyam Shankara gives an explicit reply
to this question.  I have cited both of them with p.nos. in Swami
Brahmananda's translation.

warm regards
subrahmanian.v

>
> While Sri Bhagavatpada's reply is " frustratingly evasive " , the same
> reply given by Sri Kuntimaddi is " summarized well " .How come ??
>
> I am really not keen on a response to this. It is only to express my views
> on the observation " frustratingly evasive " .
>
> Regards
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 10:53 PM, subhanu <subhanu at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > V Subramanian wrote:“Where, in whom, does this AtmAjnAnAtatA [//“api tu
> > ajñātātmaiva kāraṇam ityasmākam abhyupagamah “ ,//
> > inhere as per SriSwamiji? remains to be answered.  Is it Brahman that has
> > the AtmAjnAtatA or the jIva?
> > Has sri Swamiji said anything on this?
> > From what I understandfrom the quotes given by you here, Sri SSS is
> > non-committal on that. “ And“I would like scholars to comment on the
> > samAsa (ajnAtAtmA) shown above and offer other possibilities too to make
> > the understanding firm.” Namaste, I would like to throw some light on the
> > comments and questions above:1)     We can see Sri Swamiji’s view from
> his
> > comments in Māṇḍūkya Rahasya Vivrittih 1.2 section 24 ajnātam brahma
> khalu
> > sabῑjam brahmochyate,  Brahman unknown is falsely imagined to be Brahman
> > with causative seed. This is in keeping with Suresvara
> ajnātāmaikasamsiddha
> > bῑjāvastham idam jagat [BUBV 1.4.191]-This world appears to have the
> > “state” of seed causality because atman is not known. As has already been
> > mentioned by others on the list, duality is falsely imagined [kalpitam
> > prasajed dvaitam at BUBV 5.1.31]. Sri HS Chandramouli sent me a Kannada
> > phrase from one of Sri Swamiji’s works where he explicitly states he does
> > not support the view that the jiva “creates” the world2)     With regards
> > to where/in whom is ajnātātmatā, Sri Swamiji strictly follows Shankara
> and
> > Suresvara. VPP section 223 (section 225 in Alston’s English translation)
> > has: avidyā jñātur eva na jñeyasya, ātmano’apyajnānāshrayatvam ajnānādeva
> > nānyathā ityetat bhāṣya-vārtikayoh spaṣṭam: “Ignorance has its seat in
> the
> > knower, not the known, and the notion that the Self is the seat of
> > ignorance is as a result of ignorance and nothing else. This is the clear
> > view of Shankara and Suresvara”. All will be familiar with Shankara’s
> > frustratingly evasive responses to the question “whose is avidyā?” at BSB
> > 4.1.3 and Gita 13.2, where the response is “to whomever is asking the
> > question”. Equally Suresvara tells us at SV 176 nāvidyāsyetyavidyāyām
> >  evāsitvā prakalpyate; brahmadriṣṭyā tvavidyeyam na kathanchana yujyate
> > “No, the notion that ignorance has its seat in the absolute and belongs
> to
> > it is itself only imagined in ignorance. From the standpoint of Brahman,
> > ignorance cannot exist in any way”. This should be clear to all: since
> the
> > notions of space and time do not apply to Brahman, how can one talk of
> > something being “in Brahman”? For further details on Sri Swamiji’s views
> > please consult his comments at VPP section 75, where he discusses Maṇḍana
> > Mishra’s views on the seat of ignorance, or his comments on Nai Si 3.1 in
> > kleshāpahāriṇῑ on the same topic. Now you may wonder why Shankara gives
> > such an elusive answer to the question “whose is avidyā?”. Well it is
> > because the answers to certain questions in Shankara’s tradition yield no
> > productive value, and are of the nature of a nirarthakah prashnah, a
> > valueless question. Why is this? Well it is because one who is afflicted
> > with ignorance can never know its nature. Suresvara tells as at SV 179
> > avidyāvān avidyām tām na nirūpayitum kshamah, one endowed with ignorance
> > can never know its nature. This is the point Vidyasankar makes in his
> March
> > 18 post (those of you who are observant will note how he deftly quotes
> N.S
> > 3.66, ignorance does not brook enquiry, as it is like searching for dark
> > with a lamp). Such questions where the answers are valueless are:-
> > What is the nature of avidyā? Is it positive or negative?-       Whose is
> > avidyā?-       What causes my confusion?It is sufficient for Shankara,
> > Gaudapada and Suresvara and their tradition to point out the error so it
> > can be removed for a qualified aspirant through the shruti texts alone
> such
> > as tat tvam asi. To the extent it is helpful, one can at most
> characterise
> > one’s ignorance as imagined, of the nature of “I do not know”,
> established
> > in our everyday experience through lack of critical reflection. Nothing
> > more is needed for the sādhaka who is qualified to receive the teachings
> of
> > vedānta. This can be frustrating for many, as our nature is to look for
> the
> > cause of something, or know what it is and where it came from. We even
> have
> > the following statement in the Shri Dakshinamurthy Math Prakashana
> edition
> > of Pañchapādikā p xxix (which includes the commentaries vivaraṇam ,
> > tattva-dῑpana, and rjuvivaraṇam-an excellent reference book for all
> serious
> > students of advaita), made by the renowned scholar Panditraja
> > Shastraratnakara S Subrahmanya Shastri: “It is undeniable that the great
> > master Sankara did not work out all the implications of his avidyā, for
> he
> > was more interested in brahmavāda”. Now many on this list, regardless of
> > whether they follow vivaraṇa-prasthānam, bhāmati-prasthānam or
> > bhaṣya-prasthanam of Holenarsipur Swami, will dispute this statement by
> an
> > authority on vivaraṇam, and will feel that Shankara’s words as-is are
> > sufficient to fully explain his tradition. However, it just shows how
> > strong is the impulse within the tradition to attempt to answer such
> > questions as the 3 above. I would submit that the simple solution is to
> > never forget that the ātmavichāra of advaita is the enquiry into Brahman,
> > not avidyā. When in doubt, strive to understand Brahman, not avidyā.
> > RegardsSubhanu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>