[Advaita-l] Fwd: On some verses of the BhagavadgItA

[Nithin Sridhar]

Sujal ji,

I request you to add this quote from Saura Purana under the section where
Adi Shankara is accused as Prachanna Budhist!

-Nithin


On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Namaste
> In the Saura Purana there is Sloka 61 in 40th chapter saying Madhva is
> Prachchanna Charvaka - Prachchanno Asau Mahaadushtash Chaarvaako Madhu
> Samjnakaha. If they are saying Advaitis are like materialists demons they
> themselves are also materialists. In Vaayu Stuti also they are saying
> *lAvaNyA
> pUrNakA.ntA kuchabharasulabhAshleshhasammodasA.ndrAH *full breasted damsels
> will embrace them when they go to Vaikuntha and give pleasure. The
> Charvakas also are saying embraces of women are very pleasing. In the
> Mahabharata Tatparya Nirnaya also Madhva has said Kaama is more important
> than Dharma and Artha.  He is making Vayu Putra Bheema to say this.
> Bheema's saying is more important than other Pandavas.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 11:32 PM, V Subrahmanian
> <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Here is a post that is taken up in parts for a response.  My responses
> are
> > in blue fonts.
> >
> > subrahmanian.v
> >
> >
> >
> https://in.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SUMADHWASEVA/conversations/messages/30978
> >
> > Some comments on Swami Sivananda's (SS) translation, which HS
> > Manjunath quoted (without mentioning the source) --
> >
> > > But this clearly strikes against what Lord Krishna says in Chapter 4
> > Verse
> > > 11, where he clearly states that whatever path people travel, all paths
> > lead
> > > to HIM alone.
> > >
> > > Ye yathaa maam prapadyante taamstathaiva bhajaamyaham;
> > > Mama vartmaanuvartante manushyaah paartha sarvashah.
> > >
> > > In whatever way men approach Me, even so do I reward them; My path do
> men
> > > tread in all ways, O Arjuna!
> >
> > 'yathA', 'tathA' are correlative pronouns (demonstrative proforms)
> > mean 'in which manner', 'in that manner'. For example, the well known
> > idiom - yathA rAjA tathA prajA - means 'the way Raja is, so are the
> > people'.
> >
> > Thus, the correct translation is - In whichever manner men worship Me,
> > I reward them accordingly. 'Accordingly' is the equivalent of 'tathA'.
> >
> > SS' translation is wrong because it ignores tathaiva. tathaiva means
> > 'in that manner only'. But SS has (probably) misread it as 'tathApi'
> > (even so), despite Shankara's bhaashya on this verse being
> > grammatically right. Therefore, SS' translation: In whatever way men
> > approach me, even so I will reward them - is wrong.
> >
> > Quite on the contrary, the Lord is saying that the reward is according
> > to the method of worship. Therefore, it does not, in anyway, support
> > HS Manjunath's imagination that all souls will be rewarded mokSha
> > irrespective of their approach.
> >
> >
> > Response:
> >
> > The expression 'even so' was used as early as in 1897 by Sri AllADi
> > Mahadeva Sastri in his translation of the Bhagavadgita with the
> commentary
> > of Sri Shankaracharya.  It is this translation that has been used by
> Swami
> > Shivananda.  This translation is used in yet another book by a Swami of
> the
> > Ramakrishna Order, though in part, but with the expression 'even so.'
>  The
> > modern meaning / usage of that expression could be seen as under:
> >
> > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/even+so
> > Definition of *EVEN SO*
> >  *:*  in spite of that *:*
> > nevertheless<http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nevertheless>
> > Examples of *EVEN SO*
> >
> >    1. <I know you claim not to care about the breakup; *even so*, you
> keep
> >    talking about it.>
> >
> > First Known Use of *EVEN SO*
> > 1930
> > Related to *EVEN SO*
> > Synonyms however <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/however>,
> > howbeit <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/howbeit>,
> > nevertheless<http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nevertheless>,
> > nonetheless <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nonetheless>,
> > notwithstanding <
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/notwithstanding
> > >,
> > still <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/still>, still and
> > all<http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/still+and+all>,
> > though <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/though>,
> > withal<http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/withal>,
> > yet <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/yet>
> > Related Wordsafter all <
> > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/after+all>,
> > anyhow <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anyhow>,
> > regardless<http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/regardless>;
> > per contra <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/per+contra>
> > more <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/even+so#related-to-more>
> >
> >
> > However, in an old 'Concise Oxford Dictionary' first edition 1911, with
> me,
> > there is an entry for the word 'even' with a remark as 'archaic' as:
> >  //neither more nor less than, just, simply, as *e*. (quite) *so*,
> > (emphasizing identity) that is as *God*, *e*. *our own God*. //
> >
> > The scanned page containing the above is attached herewith.  Thus, the
> > usage by SS does not deviate from the correct meaning of the verse:  The
> > Lord responds to the devotee in the *same proportion* to the devotee's
> > approach; neither more nor less.
> >
> >
> > > The Divine and Demoniacal nature relates to creatures in THIS WORLD.
> Lord
> >  > does not say that these qualities are permanently attached to souls.
> > These
> > > qualities are only manifest attributes of the BEINGS IN THIS WORLD.
> >
> > Looks like Manjunath stopped reading Gita at 16th chapter 6th verse.
> > It is understandable. After all, the next few verses detail how
> > advaitins hold the world as not-real.
> >
> > Response:
> >
> > The Bh.GitA verses of the 16th chapter that is alleged to refer to
> > Advaitins are:
> >
> > प्रवृत्तिं च निवृत्तिं च जना न विदुरासुराः।
> >
> > न शौचं नापि चाचारो न सत्यं तेषु विद्यते।।16.7।।
> >
> > English translation by Swami Gambhirananda
> >
> > 16.7 Neither do the demoniacal persons under-stand what is to be done and
> > what is not to be done; nor does purity, or even good conduct or
> > truthfulness exist in them.
> >
> >  असत्यमप्रतिष्ठं ते जगदाहुरनीश्वरम्।
> >
> > अपरस्परसम्भूतं किमन्यत्कामहैतुकम्।।16.8।।
> >
> > 16.8 They say that the world is unreal, it has no basis, it is without a
> > God. It is born of mutual union brought about by passion! What other
> (cause
> > can there be)?
> >
> > This verse is of special interest to the adversary of Advaita to hold
> that
> > the Lord considers the  Advaitin as asura.  The reason is: 'Advaitins
> hold
> > the world to be unreal.'  However,  here is the shAnkara bhAShya in part
> > for the 16.7 and the present verse:  न शौचं नापि च आचारः न सत्यं तेषु
> > विद्यते; अशौचाः अनाचाराः मायाविनः अनृतवादिनो हि आसुराः।।किं च -- [Nor
> only
> > do they not know what is to be done and what is not to be done, na, nor;
> > does shaucam, purity; na api, or even; AcArah, good conduct; or satyam,
> > truthfulness; vidyate, exist; tesu, in them. The demons are verily bereft
> > of purity and good conduct; they are deceitful and given to speaking
> > lies.।।16.7।।
> > असत्यं यथा वयम् अनृतप्रायाः तथा इदं जगत् सर्वम् असत्यम्, अप्रतिष्ठं च न
> > अस्य धर्माधर्मौ प्रतिष्ठा अतः अप्रतिष्ठं च, इति ते आसुराः जनाः जगत् आहुः,
> > अनीश्वरम् न च धर्माधर्मसव्यपेक्षकः अस्य शासिता ईश्वरः विद्यते इति अतः
> > अनीश्वरं जगत् आहुः। किं च, अपरस्परसंभूतं कामप्रयुक्तयोः स्त्रीपुरुषयोः
> > अन्योन्यसंयोगात् जगत् सर्वं संभूतम्। किमन्यत् कामहैतुकं कामहेतुकमेव
> > कामहैतुकम्। किमन्यत् जगतः कारणम्? न किञ्चित् अदृष्टं धर्माधर्मादि
> > कारणान्तरं विद्यते जगतः 'काम एव प्राणिनां कारणम्' इति लोकायतिकदृष्टिः
> > इयम्। [16.8
> > Te, they, the demoniacal persons; ahuh, say; that the jagat, world; is
> > asatyam, unreal -  as we ourselves are prone to falsehood, so is this
> whole
> > world unreal [see an episode about Duryodhana and YudhiShThira below]*;
> > apratistham, it has no basis, it does not have righteousness and
> > unrighteousness as its basis; it is anisvaram, without a God-nor is
> there a
> > God who rules this (world) according to rigtheousness and unrighteousness
> > (of beings). Hence they say that the world is godless. Moreover, it is
> > aparaspara-sambhutam, born of mutual union. The whole world is born of
> the
> > union of the male and female impelled by passion. (That union is)
> > kama-haitukam, brought about by passion. Kama-haitukam and kama-hetukam
> are
> > the same. Kim anyat, what other (cause can there be)? There exists to
> other
> > unseen cause such as righteousness, unrigtheousness, etc. Certainly, the
> > passion of living beings is the cause of the world. This is the view of
> the
> > materialists. ।।16.8।।
> >
> >
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>
>
>
> --
> Regards
>
> -Venkatesh
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