[Advaita-l] Eka Jiiva Vaada - one perspective.

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste
On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 8:34 PM, Srirudra <srirudra at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear
> How do you say or come to a conclusion that -there is no rule that tiny
> Jiva can only imagine and create things less intelligent than himself-.How
> do you measure the capacities of a Jeeva?
>
I said there is no rule to say Jeeva can only imagine and create less
intelligent things than himself. You cannot ask for Sastra references for
this. To prove my statement is wrong you have to give a Sastra rule saying
Jeeva cannot create more intelligent things than himself. According to my
knowledge of Sastra there is no rule like this.

In daily life also we can see many examples for Man creating more
intelligent and strong machines. Many children are more intelligent than
parents. Many disciples are more intelligent than Gurus. It is all Power of
Maayaa. Even Sri Raama lost in battle to Lava and Kusha. If Raama is
Ishwara how can He lose the battle? Power of Maayaa. If Sri Raama is
Ishwara how was He tricked by Golden Deer Maayaa Mruga  in the forest?
Power of Maayaa.







> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 07-Apr-2014, at 9:50 am, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Namaste
> >
> > We have to look at the whole situation from Brahman side. Not only Jeeva
> > side.
> >
> > If we start with Brahman the One Reality also we get the same conclusion.
> > Brahman is the One Reality. There is no other. Then how did the One
> become
> > Many? By Duality called as Maayaa. Brahman has become the Jagat. Brahman
> > has become the Jeevas and Brahman has become Ishwara also. But this
> > becoming is Maayaa. It has not really happened. But Brahman has not still
> > realized this.
> >
> > How can Brahman go back to its Non Duality condition? It has created many
> > Jeevas with Body and Mind. In every single Jeeva there is only One and
> the
> > Same Brahman. If one Jeeva can use its Mind with Brahma Jijnaasaa to
> think
> > about the One Reality and realize Brahman the One Brahman has realized
> Its
> > true nature and is liberated from Maayaa. If One Jeeva causes liberation
> of
> > the bound Brahman this is sufficient for Brahman's complete liberation
> from
> > Maayaa.
> >
> > If someone says how can liberation by one Jeeva causes liberation of all
> > Jeevas this is a silly question. There are no Jeevas at all. The correct
> > number of Jeevas is Zero. Because Brahman has become bound by Maayaa It
> > thinks there are many Jeevas with Body and Mind. If One Jeeva realizes
> > Brahman that is sufficient to Brahman to get liberated. After Liberation
> by
> > one Jeeva the other Jeevas will not exist. The one Jeeva also will not
> > exist.
> >
> > This analysis is also pointing to Eka Jeeva Vaada.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Namaste
> >>
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity
> >>
> >> 'The notion of an "intelligence explosion" was first described thus by
> Good
> >> (1965<
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity#CITEREFGood1965>),
> >> who speculated on the effects of superhuman machines:
> >>
> >> Let an ultraintelligent machine be defined as a machine that can far
> >> surpass all the intellectual activities of any man however clever. Since
> >> the design of machines is one of these intellectual activities, an
> >> ultraintelligent machine could design even better machines; there would
> >> then unquestionably be an 'intelligence explosion,' and the
> intelligence of
> >> man would be left far behind. Thus the first ultraintelligent machine is
> >> the last invention that man need ever make.'
> >>
> >> Two important points. 1. Man can build Ultra Intelligent Machine.  2.
> The
> >> intelligence of Ultra Intelligent Machine will leave intelligence of man
> >> far behind.
> >>
> >> There is no rule 'tiny Jeeva' can only imagine and create things less
> >> intelligent than himself. His Imagination Power is Maayaa Sakti. This
> >> Maayaa Sakti can create superior persons like gods more intelligent than
> >> man. It can create also Ishwara with Sarvajnatva. That Sarvajna Ishwara
> >> will create the whole world seen by Jeeva in waking.  All this is
> imagined
> >> by Jeeva in dream and waking both. In Sushupti the Maaya Sakti is not
> >> working. He cannot see anything.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 1:00 PM, V Subrahmanian <
> v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Namaste
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Like this it is possible the Jeeva can imagine and create very
> >>> complicated
> >>>> things like Computers and even God. The Power of Imagination is coming
> >>> from
> >>>> Maayaa. It is the Cause. But Maayaa is also imagined by Jeeva's
> Avidyaa.
> >>>>
> >>>> The whole Universe is a mental Construction only in the mind of one
> >>> Jeeva.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It would be significant to observe two statements for Shankaracharya's
> >>> Bhashyam on the above theme:
> >>>
> >>> The first is from the Sutra Bhashya: 1.3.30:
> >>>
> >>> //svApaprabodhayoshcha pralaya-prabhavau srUyete, 'yadA suptaH svapnam
> na
> >>> kanchana pashyati atha asmin prANa evaikadhA bhavati tadainam
> >>> vAk-sarvair-nAmabhiH sahApyeti chakShuH sarvai rUpaiH sahApyeti srotram
> >>> sarvaiH shabdaiH sahApyeti manaH sarvairdhyAnaiH sahApyeti sa yadA
> >>> pratibudhyate yathA agneH jvalataH sarvA disho visphulingA
> vipratiShTheran
> >>> evam eva etasmAdAtmanaH sarve prANA yathayatanam vipratiShThante
> prANebhyo
> >>> devA devebhyo lokAH' iti. (kAuShItakI up. III.3.
> >>>
> >>> Translation of the bhAShya along with the passage of the shruti cited
> >>> therein:
> >>>
> >>> [Dissolution and creation in sleep and waking are heard of in the Veda
> as
> >>> 'When a man who is asleep does not see any dream, he becomes unified in
> >>> this prANa (Supreme Atman) Itself.  Then, the organ of speech, together
> >>> with all the names, merges in prANa (Supreme Atman), the organ of
> sight,
> >>> together with all forms merges in prANa (Su.Atman), the organ of
> hearing,
> >>> together with all sounds, merges in prANa (su.Atman), the min, together
> >>> with all thoughts, merges in praNA (su.Atman).
> >>>
> >>> When he awakens, then, just as sparks fly out in all directions from a
> >>> blazing fire, from this Supreme Atman, all the organ s go forth to
> their
> >>> seats, from the organs, emerge the presiding deities and from the
> >>> presiding
> >>> deities, emerge the sense-objects ( (kAuShItakI up. III.3) ] //
> >>>
> >>> In the above passage the merger(laya)  and emergence (sRShTi) of not
> just
> >>> the organs and the mind but also of all names, forms, sounds, and thus
> of
> >>> the world of waking, has been specified.  Were Shankaracharya to hjave
> >>> deemed the world of waking state to have a reality in thorough
> contrast to
> >>> the falsity of a dream, He could not have justifiably averred that it
> is
> >>> dissolved when a person does not see it, when asleep, and that it is
> >>> created when the person does, on awakening. His declaration is,
> however,
> >>> quite fitting if He did take the world of the waking state to be on par
> >>> with a dream or a rope-snake (which example He has used in the 'bahu
> syAm
> >>> prajAyeya'.. of the Cha.up. 6.2.3 for explaining Brahman creating the
> >>> world) whose existence cannot be asserted in the absence of the dream
> or a
> >>> rope being so seen by a person (buddhi parikalpitena, imagined by the
> >>> intellect, as Shankara says in the above cited Ch.bhAShya).
> >>>
> >>> It is here the authoritative gloss, the bhAShyaratnaprabhA explains the
> >>> cited BSB passage thus:
> >>>
> >>> svapnavat kalpitasya ajnAtasattAbhAvAt darshanam sRShTiH adarshanam
> layaH
> >>> iti dRShTi-sRShTipakShaH shrutyabhireta iti bhAvaH (BSB 1.3.30)
> >>>
> >>> [Because that which is fancied like a dream has no existence when it is
> >>> not
> >>> apprehended, perception is creation and non-perception is dissolution.
> >>> The
> >>> Upanishad (kauShItakI that Shankara cites as proof for this ) approves
> of
> >>> this view that perception is creation. This is the idea.]
> >>>
> >>> It is worthy of noting that the entire kShetram, the observed universe,
> >>> described succinctly in the BG 13.6 and 7 verses is encapsulated in the
> >>> above upanishad/bhashya as the one that gets dissolved, disappears,
> when
> >>> not seen/cognized, as in sleep and emerging, created, when cognition
> again
> >>> commences when waking occurs.  The most significant part of the
> upanishad
> >>> is that the presiding deities, deva-s and the objects (loka-s) too get
> >>> 'created during cognition', thus affirming the 'cognition is creation'
> >>> idea.
> >>>
> >>> The Second passage from Shankara is from the Br.up.Bhashya 2.i.18
> >>> (ajAtashatru brAhmaNam):
> >>>
> >>> tasmAt svapne mRShA adhyaropita eva AtmabhUtatvena lokA avidyamAnA eva
> >>> santaH tathA jAgarite api iti pratyetavyam.
> >>>
> >>> [Therefore, in the dream state, worlds that are not at all real are
> >>> falsely
> >>> superimposed as being of the self.  *One must understand that such is
> the
> >>> case in the waking state too*.]
> >>>
> >>> [I have not done spelling and grammar checks for the above.]
> >>>
> >>> So, the idea that the fourteen loka-s meant for bhogya of the jIva-s
> are
> >>> created by Ishwara alone and not by the jiva is not borne out by the
> above
> >>> bhashya/shruti passages.
> >>>
> >>> warm regards
> >>> subrahmanian.v
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> -Venkatesh
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards
> >
> > -Venkatesh
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-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh