[Advaita-l] Samit Pani, do we really have to stretch this ??

[Nithin Sridhar]

I agree with you that at highest level, there is neither creation nor
dissolution. No bandana no Mukti. When Maya does not exist, where is the Q
of Prarabda?

But, I was only speaking from Vyavaharika. :) Gaudapadacharya has indeed
explained in excellent way.

It is important to note that, though Nirvikalpa Samadi ultimately leads to
Jnana, Nirvikalpa Samadi as such cannot be equated with Jnana.

-Nithin


On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 6:52 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Nithin ji,
>
> You are not contradicting me. What I am saying is that Sri Ramakrishna said
> that only a handful of few are able to come back from Nirvikkalp samadhi.
> This happens by will of God. Everything is pseudo. Not the real thing. No
> real Prarabhdha. There is a case with Yogis like Paramhansa Dropping his
> body at will, Mahaavatar Babaji transformed his body into light. Swami Rama
> was destined to die young. His Guru saved him from the clutches of death.
>
> I have not read Sutra Bhashya. Hence I cannot comment on it. All I can say
> is that initially it is taught to give logical explanation. Later on, that
> explanation is negated like in Aparokshanubhuti it is negated.
>
> We have even seen Ishvara getting angry for devotees. The question of Jivan
> Mukta and their existence is related to Prarabhdha, is very logical. when
> the entire world is negated in ajAta vAda, and there is no creation, as
> pure consciousness, then there is no question of PrArabhdha. IMHO, I think
> that from Parmarthik Satya, there is no Prarabhdha. But in this case,
> updesha cannot be given, s the natural and only state is maun. Only maun is
> capable enough to expression atma sthiti. To give instruction,
> GauDapadAchArya has said in his kArikA that role of Guru and Shishya is
> only for explanatory purpose. Else who is disciple and who is Guru, there
> are no two.
>
> I think the theory of Prarabhdha has to be taken from practical standpoint.
> It is only my personal opinion.
>
> Hari OM
>
> Sujal
>
>
> OM
>
> Sujal Upadhyay
>
> "To disconnect from the self and to become Aware of anything else is
> nothing but unhappiness" - Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi
>
> He who has faith has all
> He who lacks faith, lacks all
> It is the faith int he name of lord that works wonders
> FAITH IS LIFE, DOUBT IS DEATH - Sri Ramakrishna
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Nithin Sridhar <sridhar.nithin at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Dear Sujal ji,
> >
> > If Prarabda is not present, why would in Brahmasutra 4.1.13 it is
> > said-"When Knowledge is attained, there is destruction and nullification
> of
> > past and future Karmas".?
> >
> > If Prarabda is not remaining, then a person who attains Jnana becomes
> > Videha-Mukta immediately. But, we see that so many Jivan-Muktas are
> present
> > for the welfare of the world. When a person attaining Jnana has
> > extinguished all Prarabda Karma( that were responsible for his present
> > body), then he would become "Videha Mukta" immediately. On the other
> hand,
> > if  a Jnani remains in the world as Jivan-Mukta, its because the Prarabda
> > Karmas responsible for the body is yet to completely extinguished.
> >
> > But, I am not saying that Prarabda creates limitations in a Jnani.
> Instead
> > I am saying, that the body is maintained due to the Prarabda (Even
> > Ramakrishna is saying so in the above quote).
> >
> > For a Jnani, all Avidya has been indeed destroyed, but the momentum
> caused
> > due to Avidya remains a little even after its destruction. This as I
> > understand, is variously called as Avidya Lesha or Prarabda. Because,
> > without that, then a Jnani living in his body is not possible. This was
> > what Ramakrishna meant by "Retaining connection with body/Ego etc"
> >
> > I feel I am not at all contradicting you when you say, Jnani has no
> > limitations. Jnani is without Karma. That is what I have written in my
> > piece.
> >
> > "The action by its very nature is due to Ignorance. An activity assumes a
> > subject, object and the action. But, a Jnani who has realized Brahman as
> > being beyond all activity, beyond all mutability, eternal, birth-less etc
> > How can such a Jnani perceive Birth, death and such mutations? How can
> such
> > person perceive the duality subject and object? How will such a person be
> > subjected to or bounded by Karma?"
> >
> >
> http://nithinsridhar.wordpress.com/2013/10/29/random-musings-part-17-the-state-of-jnana/
> >
> >
> > -Nithin S
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > These days, instead of 'samit', an android phone with a working
> > internet
> > > > connectivity to a 'realised guru' who can guide one through the maze
> of
> > > > 'samsara' aided by the 'sastra' and grace of god should do the work!
> > Not
> > > > forgetting to carry suitable gifts & prostrate with humility
> > > > -'shiShyaste.aha.n shAdhi mA.n tvA.n prapannam'
> > > > Regards
> > > > Balagopal
> > > > PS: even this forum is helping mumukshus in keep going forward.
> > >
> > >
> > > Maybe Upanishad would mean - to stay connected to Guru via internet
> ;)​​
> > >
> > >
> > > OM
> > >
> > > Sujal Upadhyay
> > >
> > > "To disconnect from the self and to become Aware of anything else is
> > > nothing but unhappiness" - Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi
> > >
> > > He who has faith has all
> > > He who lacks faith, lacks all
> > > It is the faith int he name of lord that works wonders
> > > FAITH IS LIFE, DOUBT IS DEATH - Sri Ramakrishna
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 4:43 PM, balagopal ramakrishnan <
> > > rbalpal at yahoo.co.in
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >>>"samit" is the upa-lakSaNa as mentioned in vedantasara.
> > > >
> > > > These days, instead of 'samit', an android phone with a working
> > internet
> > > > connectivity to a 'realised guru' who can guide one through the maze
> of
> > > > 'samsara' aided by the 'sastra' and grace of god should do the work!
> > Not
> > > > forgetting to carry suitable gifts & prostrate with humility
> > > > -'shiShyaste.aha.n shAdhi mA.n tvA.n prapannam'
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > Balagopal
> > > > PS: even this forum is helping mumukshus in keep going forward.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tuesday, 29 October 2013 2:52 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <
> sujal.u at gmail.com
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Namaste,
> > > >
> > > > @ Nithin ji,
> > > >
> > > > Prarabhdha is negated by BG 4
> > > >
> > > > *Adhyaropa*
> > > >
> > > > न हि कश्चित्क्षणमपि जातु तिष्ठत्यकर्मकृत्।
> > > > कार्यते ह्यवशः कर्म सर्वः प्रकृतिजैर्गुणैः।।3.5।।
> > > >
> > > > 3.5 Because, no one ever remains even for a moment without doing
> work.
> > > For
> > > > all are made to work under compulsion by the gunas born of Nature.
> > > >
> > > > *ApavAda*
> > > >
> > > > यथैधांसि समिद्धोऽग्निर्भस्मसात्कुरुतेऽर्जुन।
> > > > ज्ञानाग्निः सर्वकर्माणि भस्मसात्कुरुते तथा।।4.37।।
> > > >
> > > > 4.37 Just as burning fire turns fuel to ashes, O Arjuna, so does the
> > fire
> > > > of knowledge turn all Karma to ashes.
> > > >
> > > > The explanation for Prarabhdha is only for the those who cannot
> believe
> > > > when they see Jnani undergoing suffering or getting sick, etc. Else
> how
> > > can
> > > > one attain Jnana if there is anything left in mind.
> > > >
> > > > Here in BG, Bhagavan says all karmas, which includes Prarabhdha too.
> > > >
> > > > Sri Ramakrishna says that just to retain the connection with body, a
> > > Jnani
> > > > shows some interest in or attachment to object like having interest
> in
> > a
> > > > particular type of food, etc. If one stay in Nirvikalp samadhi for 21
> > > days,
> > > > then body, like dry leaf, would drop off. Some like Sukhdev ji
> retained
> > > ego
> > > > of knowledge. This ego is pseudo and is like a burnt rope or like a
> > sword
> > > > which is touched by philosopher's stone (parasmani). Technically it
> is
> > > God
> > > > who is working or expressing himself through the body of Jnani.
> > > Everything
> > > > happens spontaneously. Life is a happening.
> > > >
> > > > Jivan Mukta Gita and Atma Vidya Vilas would be helpful.
> > > >
> > > > If anything remains in mind, then mind is not destroyed. Hence
> > everything
> > > > empties. Even Prarabhdha is burned by fire of knowledge.
> > > >
> > > > OM
> > > >
> > > > Sujal
> > > >
> > > > OM
> > > >
> > > > Sujal Upadhyay
> > > >
> > > > "To disconnect from the self and to become Aware of anything else is
> > > > nothing but unhappiness" - Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi
> > > >
> > > > He who has faith has all
> > > > He who lacks faith, lacks all
> > > > It is the faith int he name of lord that works wonders
> > > > FAITH IS LIFE, DOUBT IS DEATH - Sri Ramakrishna
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Nithin Sridhar <
> > > sridhar.nithin at gmail.com
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > When it is said that Jnani has no Karma, it means that Jnani who
> > > remains
> > > > in
> > > > > Paramartika Dasha, for him no Karma binds. But, a Jivan-Mukta
> remains
> > > in
> > > > > his body till his Prarabda Karma is extinguished. Hence, even many
> > > > > Householders have become Jnani's. The examples can be that of King
> > > Janaka
> > > > > or Rishi Vashista etc. In the recent times the example of Lahari
> > > Mahasaya
> > > > > can be given.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://nithinsridhar.wordpress.com/2013/10/29/random-musings-part-17-the-state-of-jnana/
> > > > >
> > > > > -Nithin
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Bhaskar YR <
> bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > praNAms Sri Venkatesh prabhuji
> > > > > > Hare Krishna
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just my few additional thoughts :
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Advaita Parampara we can see Rishis like Vasishtha, Sakti,
> > > > Parashara,
> > > > > > Vyasa and Suka. Those Rishis were householders living with wives
> > and
> > > > > > children.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > AFAIK, shuka was not a householder, he was a born jnAni,
> anyway,
> > > let
> > > > > > that matter be aside.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They were doing Yajnas regularly. But they were Brahma Jnanis. No
> > > > > > one can deny that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >  jnAna and karma cannot go hand in hand, there is an elaborated
> > > > > > discussion on this in shankara's geeta bhAshya.  Here shankara
> > gives
> > > > > > details how the paramArtha jnAni cannot engage himself in
> karma-s.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Upanishad period all Brahma Jnanis were householders only.
> There
> > > > were
> > > > > > no
> > > > > > Sanyasis.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >  I am afraid, this is rather an exaggerated claim.  prabhuji,
> do
> > > you
> > > > > > have any scriptural reference for this statement?? BTW, I am not
> > able
> > > > to
> > > > > > understand this upanishad period!! since tradition holds that
> > veda-s
> > > > are
> > > > > > anAdi, apaurusheya & its doctrine is not time-bound.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Upanishad period the Advaita was followed was different. It
> was
> > > like
> > > > > > Mandana Mishra's Advaita like mixing Jnana and Karma.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >  I dont think so, coz., upanishad itself says na karamaNa
> > > naprajaya,
> > > > > > tyAgenaike amrutatvamAnashuH...saNyAsa yOga is well documented in
> > > > shruti
> > > > > > itself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  A Brahma Jijnasu was doing Yajnas and studying Upanishads also
> at
> > > the
> > > > > > same time. It was Jnana
> > > > > > Karma Samuccaya Vada of Mandana Mishra. Mandana Mishra has
> praised
> > > > > Vaidika
> > > > > > Karmas are important for Brahma Jnana.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >  I think pUrva mImAmsaka-s have described vedAnta (jnAna kAnda)
> > as
> > > > > > eulogy, arthavAda.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > > > > > bhaskar
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