[Advaita-l] Eternal Loka

[Rajaram Venkataramani]

Hare Krishna.

*1. smrti and bhashya evidence that vaikuntha is eternal:*
grīvāyāḿ janaloko 'sya tapolokaḥ stana-dvayāt mūrdhabhiḥ satyalokas tu
brahmalokaḥ *sanātanah* (SBh 2.5.39) Sridhara comments for this verse that
Vaikuntha is eternal. Kadalangudi Natesa Sastrigal, who belongs to advaita
sampradaya, also translates it into Tamil as nityamana vaikuntamum (eternal
vaikunta).

*2. smrti evidence that there is no fear in vaikuntha:*
ātapatraḿ tu vaikuṇṭhaḿ dvijā *dhāmākuto-bhayam *tri-vṛd vedaḥ
suparṇākhyo (SBh 12.11.19). In "mutthi neri", Sringeri Periyva talks about
fear due to duality in the world of gods. Such fear is denied in Vaikuntha,
the world of Vishnu.

There is definitely a difference between Indraloka (temporary) and
Vaikuntha (permanent).


On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 12:59 PM, <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:

> **
> I definitely will cite the shruti and smrti verses that talk about eternal
> loka. However, I'd like to first ascertain based on textual evidence that
> (early) advaita acharyas deny existence of an eternal loka in vyavahara.
> You and ShrI SadAnanda categorically deny that there is an eternal
> vaikuntha and would like to know if there is evidence that your position is
> supported by the acharyas in the tradition.
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
> ------------------------------
> *From: * V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Sat, 20 Jul 2013 15:50:47 +0530
> *To: *<rajaramvenk at gmail.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> *Cc: *kuntimaddi sadananda<kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [Advaita-l] Eternal Loka
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 4:57 AM, <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Namaskaram. There are  sastras that talk about eternal loka. How do
>> advaita acharyas deal with that?
>>
>
> Pl. cite those shastras with accurate reference/text, etc. and we shall
> see how they can be treated in advaita.
>
> And with regard to Shri Keshava's question, the dvaitins hold that there
> are two vaikunthas: one lower and the other higher: prAkRta and aprAkRta (I
> think that is the distinction, though Vishishtadvaitins have kArana and
> kArya vaikinthas)  The vaikunta from where jaya vijaya returned is the
> lower one.  That is the explanation they give.  But HH Sri Chandrashekhara
> Bharati Swamiji of Sringeri, while referring to non-advaitic moksha has
> cited the jaya-vijaya case as one where there is no abolute mukti but only
> relative, if any loka-prApti is admitted as mukti by various  schools.
>
> regards
> vs
>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
>> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 15:03:25
>> To: rajaramvenk at gmail.com<rajaramvenk at gmail.com>; A discussion group for
>> Advaita Vedanta<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> Reply-To: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Eternal Loka
>>
>> Rajaram - PraNAms
>> I feel there is a mixing up of the concepts of  other matas with advatic
>> doctrine.
>>
>> From the vishiShTaadvaita point these are matter, made of pure satva only
>> - a jiiva also get saatvic body when he takes a dip in the river (I think
>> it is called sarayu) and gets welcome by the mother of all, Lakshmi Devi
>> who is happy to see her son coming back and dresses up the jiiva (like
>> prodigal son who has come back) and presents him to the father. These are
>> all projections of the vaishnava Tradition which believes that Vaikunta is
>> moksha. Vyaavahaara is there from their point since jiiva's role is to
>> serve the Lord all the time.
>>
>> Let us not get mixed up with adviatic doctrinal position that you are
>> asking. Paaramaarthika, vyaavahaarika and praatibhaasika divisions are
>> mostly from advaita position.
>> From advaita as I mentioned within vyavahaara there are only 14 lokas
>> highest being satya loka. One can go up to that and return or evolve
>> further by karma mukti.
>> Other than that there is no vaikunta or kailaasa as per advaita.
>> There is no point in mixing up these doctrinal positions and get confused.
>> Any way this is my view.
>> Hari Om!
>> Sadananda
>>
>>
>> >________________________________
>> > From: "rajaramvenk at gmail.com" <rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
>> >To: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>; A discussion group
>> for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> >Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 4:51 PM
>> >Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Eternal Loka
>> >
>> >
>> >Namaskarams. If Vaikuntha and Kailasa are not bautika, then what are
>> they made of? Also, if they are not in vyavahara realm, how is vyavaharam
>> possible in these lokas? My original question was whether vaikuntha and
>> kailasa are eternal lokas in vyavahara realm but from what you say they
>> seem to be paramarthika as per advaita though different to advaita siddhi.
>> Is that a correct understanding of your view? If so, how can that be true
>> as only advaita siddhi is paramarthika?
>> >Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
>> >Sender: "Advaita-l" <advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> >Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:35:35
>> >To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> >Reply-To: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>,
>> >A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
>> ><advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> >Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Eternal Loka
>> >
>> >Shree Rajaram - PraNAms. You should know too, if I may say so. Vaikunta
>> and kailasa do not come under the Bhoutika prapancha that consists of 14
>> lokas. In the krama mukti the highest is satya loka where jiiva either come
>> back to the earth or gets Vedantic knowledge from Brahmaji and gets
>> liberated at the end of that loka.
>> >
>> >Vaikunta and Kailaasa are supposed to be where mukta jiivas go, and
>> therefore do not come under vyaavahaarika lokas as per Advaita. As
>> per vishishTaadvaita, for example - they are lokas where there is no return
>> back since they are liberated even though they will be transacting with
>> each other and also serving the Lord, while enjoying infinite happiness.
>> >
>> >Advaita does not accept such mukti where duality persists; and
>> since they are not part of the 14 lokas of the bhoutika prapanca they are
>> not accepted in that category also.  udaramantaram kurute athathasya bhayam
>> bhavati - even a spec of difference will cause fear and therefore samsara,
>> and hence as per advaita there is no freedom from samsara even in VaikunTa.
>> Such conditioned freedom is not accepted by Advaita even under karma mukti
>> also.
>> >Just my 2c.
>> >Hari Om!
>> >Sadananda
>> >_______________________________________________
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