[Advaita-l] Shankara on non-Advaitic mokSha/Brahman

[Swami Sarvabhutananda]

OM
Nothing is created!
It is the manifestation of BRAHMA!
Everything is as though!
Swami Sarvabhutananda

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 3:18 PM, <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:

> In advaita, are time and space accepted as created entities? If yes, then
> we must have an Ishwara transcendental to time and space who has the power
> of  time and space. This power or quality can have neither beginning nor
> end. So you to accept at least one quality of Ishwara as beyond
> spacio-temporal limitations (or absolute).
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> Sender: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 07:10:55
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Reply-To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
>         <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Shankara on non-Advaitic mokSha/Brahman
>
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 12:27 AM, Rajaram Venkataramani <
> rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 5:54 PM, V Subrahmanian <
> v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > The question is: what will be the state of this jiva with
> self-knowledge
> > > after death? Will he continue as an individual or not?
> > >
> >
> > RV: In GV, individuality of the jivatman is svarupa. It will never be
> lost.
> >
>
> In Advaita individuality cannot exist as all visheshas are avidyAkalpita
> and one individual can be different from another only thru vishesha, a
> position that the Madhwa school fundamentally depends upon.  It is the
> nirvishesha Brahman that is the sole reality according to Advaita.  In any
> case this is not an Advaita and GV or any other school debate.
>
> >
> > >
> > > How long?  For the body-mind apparatus is perishable, no matter of what
> > > they have been made.  Certainly they cannot be made of Pure
> > Consciousness;
> > > only prakRti can take shapes and sizes and attributes.
> > >
> >
> > RV: In GV, the body made of visuddha sattva is non-different from
> brahman.
> > It differentiates between internal, marginal and external
> > potencies and links them to brahman through visesha. In advaita, one has
> to
> > say that the form of even Ishwara has to be acit. If it is acit, it has
> to
> > be cause of sorrow like any other form.  But where is the support for
> such
> > a position in sastras to say that rupa of Bhagavan is cause of sorrow?
> >
>
> All rUpa, including that Bhagavan takes, is time-bound; it has a beginning
> and an end. And they are either avidyA or mAyA kalpita and therefore do not
> stand the test of absolutism.
>
> > I do not understand how a leg of a chair can be different from a chair,
> for
> > a chair is a chair only with all its constituent parts.
> >
>
> RV: A chair is made of head, back, seat, hands and legs arranged in a
> > particular configuration. If you point to any of the parts, you cannot
> say
> > it is chair. So, each part is different from the chair. The chairness of
> > the chair is also not lost by breaking a hand or a leg. For this reason
> > also, the chair is different from its individual parts. However, there is
> > no part of a chair that can exist without a chair because an adjective
> > cannot exist without qualifying a noun.
>
>
> In fact this purely Advaitic position that only signifies anirvachanIyatva
> of the creation is already summarised in this article:
>
> http://adbhutam.wordpress.com/2009/07/25/attributes-and-substantive/
>
>
> > They cannot exist outside the chair
> > because they are its parts, hence one with it. And the parts of a chair
> do
> > not limit a chair. Such is the relationship between brahman and
> jiva-jagat,
> > according GV.
> >
> >
> > If the shakti of the shaktimAn Brahman has produced the jiva-s that are
> > different from Him/It, then it goes without saying that the products of
> > Brahman are non-different from It even as clay products are non-
> different
> > from clay in truth.
> >
> > RV: There is no creation or production of jiva in GV. It is a shakti of
> > the lord. As His shakti, it is inseparable from Him.
> >
>
> But that shakti is there in Him only because of the world and the jiva-s.
> Since Bhagavan or Brahman is nitya tripta, It has nothing to gain from
> creation.  And the shakti is inferred in It only from seeing the creation.
> So a shakti that is dependent on / for the sake of creation cannot be the
> svarUpa lakShaNa of Brahman; it can be only a taTastha lakShana.  Then, it
> boils down to adhyasta in brahman, that can be easily negated for the
> purpose of realizing Its true nature.
>
> Also, if jIva and jagat are inseparable from Brahman, it becomes necessary
> to state in clear terms on what kind of relationship do they exist in
> Brahman.  If it is samyoga sambandha, it will render Brahman finite, with
> parts, and therefore perishable for only such objects can conjoin with each
> other.  If they are inseparably there in Brahman, then their doshas are
> unavoidable in / inseparable from Brahman.  Thus the only way they can
> exist in Brahman is through adhyAsa which alone can make Brahman absolutely
> free of their contact and the defects such a contact can bring.  That is
> the Advaitic way.
>
> subrahmanian.v
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