[Advaita-l] kratu without IshvarapraNidhAna

[Satish Arigela]

Just saw this thread. shrI Ramesh presented the issue correctly to shrI
Ramakrishna's question. Thanks 

Indeed, I was trying to say that the effect is independent of such
theoretical constructs.


 >This may be correct from a strictly "transactional" point
of view with
>a focus on the result, where the upAsaka thinks he is just
>"transacting" with a upAsana, which is nothing more than a
ritual. As
>long as he keeps
>doing the ritual correctly, he keeps getting the result.
 
Earlier, I stressed on some things to be able to enable people to see the difference.
But usually a mantrin's upAsana is not as dry as it is portrayed above.

 
>However, at least at some point, the upAsaka has to rise above this
purely
>transactional view and ask the question, "Who/What is the power that
>rewards the result?" 
 
This may look purely argumentative and atheistic[as in Western notion of
atheism]... but I will ask: 
 
Why should any one ask this question? What do you get out of it? To this
I probably will be pointed to the below statement..but see comments below


>If this question is not asked, then as per the gItA, the
>upAsaka is likely to get trapped in a cycle of performing kAmya karma,
>where the focus is on the result. Why is it a trap? Desires are
>endless. 


It is agreed that desires are endless.. and Ishvara need not appear before one to make them understand so.

There is no clear relation between "not asking who gives the result" and "getting trapped in the web of desires".

To elaborate: One can realize by observation that desires have no end and keep them in check. The ability to keep one's desires in check only requires strong will and good observation of human nature. One does not need to ask "who gives the reward of actions" to keep one's desires in check. Nor is there any guarantee that asking such a question automatically puts an end to one's desires i.e. one can speculate as to who gives fruits and still be trapped... we see this happen in the world almost daily..

 
Though the ShaTkarma, siddhi etc are given a lot of importance in mantra
shAstra, when a mantrin starts a practice of a patron deity, or pradhAna
upAsana mUrti, they may or may not have a specific goal in mind. Many(Actually all the few people that I knew) just
perform the practice to purely "know/perceive" the devata. As an example, if someone were to go to any of my teachers and just ask for a mantra to get rich...they will drive them away!

 
There is a relevant quote from the trika shaiva teacher abhinavagupta on
mantra-s which will be very appropriate at this stage.. but I just cant find it
right now.
  
>Today, I have a desire for wealth and I may undertake upAsana of a
certain
>deity to get that wealth. Tomorrow, I may desire something else and
>undertake the upAsana of another deity. Where is the end to desires?
 
Depending on the level of Siddhi, one mantra can grant everything and a
though a mantrin has typically many mantra-s, he may use the mantra of his
patron/main deity to achieve many things.

>If there indeed is a power that gives the result,  would it not be
>far more appropriate to worship that power *directly*, without
>focusing on the result? This is what gItA says.
 
Let us say this so called power existed. So please tell me, how do I
worship this power "directly".

As for results.. please refer above comments.