[Advaita-l] Ishwara Turiya?

[Kathirasan K]

Namaste ji,

I am in total agreement with you. It is good to know the exceptions as well
as the norm.

2012/3/9 V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>

> On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 6:53 AM, Kathirasan K <brahmasatyam at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Namaste
> >
> > Michael Comans (vasudevacarya) takes the same view in his book 'The
> Method
> > of Early Advaita Vedanta'. He holds the view that Shankara uses the term
> > ishvara to mean both nirguna and saguna in his prasthana traya bhashya.
> He
> > provides references too.
> >
>
> It is clear that when someone wants to know whether Ishwara is Turiya or
> not, it is presumed that the questioner has in mind the Ishwara who is the
> Creator, etc.(saguNa).  For he cannot, obviously, think beyond this.  It is
> with this in mind the reply:  'Ishwara is within the realm of relativity
> and therefore not Turiya' is given.  That Shankara has used in the
> bhashya-s  the term 'Ishwara' for example in the context of
> 'kShtrajneshwara abheda' it is only meant that 'Ishwara' here is nirguNa
> Brahman.  These are considered only exceptions and not the rule.
> Traditional Advaitins will hold this 'general rule' / 'exception' scheme as
> the method to explain these things.  That is why it is insisted that
> Advaita is studied under a traditional Acharya who has the entire bhashya
> and other texts in his mind's eye while teaching a student.  He will see
> that the student gets the correct import of the word 'Ishwara' wherever it
> is used.  Otherwise, a categorical statement 'Ishwara is Turiya' is bound
> to send the wrong message about the Advaitic Ishwara.  Thus it is safest to
> have this rule: 'Ishwara is within mAyA and therefore not Turiya' and
> 'Brahman, NIrguNa, is beyond Maya and therefore Turiya'.  It is always safe
> to have riders to avoid misunderstandings.
>
> This statement of Shankara in the BSB 2.1.14 isthe  key to understanding
> the status of 'Ishwar' in Advaita:
>
> *तदेवमविद्यात्मकोपाधिपरिच्छेदापेक्षमेवेश्वरस्येश्वरत्वं सर्वज्ञत्वं
> सर्वशक्तित्वं च न परमार्थतो विद्यायापास्तसर्वोपाधिस्वरूप
> आत्मनीशित्रीशितव्यसर्वज्ञत्वादिव्यवहार उपपद्यते   ।*
>
>
> //Thus, only in the realm of the ignorance-created upAdhis are Ishwara's
> Lordship, Omniscience and Omnipotence, and not in the pAramArthika realm
> which implies that the ignorance-created upAdhis have been
> negated/dispelled by True knowledge.  In this post-negation scenario the
> ignorance-realm of Ishwara-Ishitavya (ruler-ruled) duality and omniscience,
> etc. do not have a place.//
>
>
> This is perhaps the best and most unambiguous statement that one can keep
> etched in one's intellect with regard to the status of Ishwara in Advaita.
>
>
> These following sentences, again from the above BSB, are added notes on the
> topic, the translation of which can be obtained from Swami Gambhirananda's
> book:
>
>
> **
>
> तथाचोक्तम्ऽयत्र नान्यत्पश्यति नान्यच्छृणोति नान्यद्विजानाति स भूमाऽ (छा.
> ७.२४.१) इतिऽयत्र त्वस्य सर्वमात्मैवाभूत्तत्केन पश्येत्ऽ (बृ. ४.५.१५)
> इत्यादिना च   ।
>
> एवं परमार्थावस्थायां सर्वव्यवहाराभावं वदन्ति वेदान्ताः सर्वे   ।
>
> तथेश्वरगीतास्वपिऽन कर्तृत्वं न कर्माणि लोकस्य सृजति प्रभुः   ।
>
> न कर्मफलसंयोगं स्वभावस्तु प्रवर्तते  । ।
>
> नादत्ते कस्यचित्पापं न चैव सुकृतं विभुः   ।
>
> अज्ञानेनावृतं ज्ञानं तेन मुह्यन्ति जन्तवःऽ (गी. ५.१४.१५) इति
> परमार्थावस्थायामीशित्रीशितव्यादिव्यवहाराभावः प्रदर्श्यते   ।
>
> व्यवहारावस्थायां तूक्तः श्रुतावपीश्वरादिव्यवहारःऽएष सर्वेश्वर एष
> भूताधिपतिरेष भूतपाल एष सेतुर्विधारण एषां लोकानामसंभेदायऽ (बृ. ४.४.२२) इति
> ।
>
> तथाचेश्वरगीतास्वपिऽईश्वरः सर्वभूतानां हृद्देशेर्ऽजुन तिष्ठति   ।
>
> भ्रामयन्सर्वभूतानि यन्त्रारूढानि माययाऽ (गी. १८.६१) इति   ।
>
> सूत्रकारोऽपि परमार्थाभिप्रायेण तदन्यत्वमित्याह   ।
>
> व्यवहाराभिप्रायेण तु स्याल्लोकवदिति महासमुद्रस्थानीयतां ब्रह्मणः कथयति   ।
>
> अप्रत्याख्यायैव कार्यप्रपञ्चं परिणामप्रक्रियां चाश्रयति
> सगुणोपासनेषूपयोक्ष्यत इति    । । १४  । ।
>
>
> I would go to the extent of saying: If someone who is capable of convincing
> his tradition-trained Acharya to teach only the above BSB (2.1.14),
> completely, there is bound to arise a correct understanding of Advaita.
> For this BSB deals with a number of key aspects of Advaita and is
> considered a reference point.
>
>
> Regards,
> subrahmanian.v
>
> >
> >
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