[Advaita-l] Advaita-l Digest, Vol 83, Issue 11w

Swamy Ketha swamyks at gmail.com
Sun Jun 12 15:52:20 CDT 2011
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On Jun 12, 2011, at 1:00 PM, advaita-l-request at lists.advaita-vedanta.org wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: tat gotra (Dr. Yadu Moharir)
>   2. Re: Advaita-l Digest, Vol 83, Issue 10 (krismanian at gmail.com)
>   3. Re: Anubhava (kuntimaddi sadananda)
>   4. Was Madhusudana Saraswati Influenced by Gaudiya    Vaishnavas?
>      (Rajaram Venkataramani)
>   5. Re: Was Madhusudana Saraswati Influenced by Gaudiya
>      Vaishnavas? (Sunil Bhattacharjya)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 10:36:40 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "Dr. Yadu Moharir" <ymoharir at yahoo.com>
> To: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>,    A discussion
>    group for Advaita Vedanta    <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] tat gotra
> Message-ID: <324395.90116.qm at web113307.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Namaste:
> 
> My question and remark was directed towards highlighting the fact of non-relationship between "j~naana & Sex" and to inquire about existing Gotra system at that time?? Any specifics "pri-yaaj~navaalya" would be interesting to study.
> 
> 
> Using "seeds" from sages (niyoga) was also recognized and adopted by Swami Dayananda - Aryaa Samaj.
> 
> 
> Any information on the "Viniyoga" would be highly appreciated.? I am trying to understand the co-relation between various suukta as they appear in Vedika text and have a specific cross reference in thye associated brahmaNaa's.? Some the the specific smidhaa as specified in the ritual appear to have medicinal properties that find application in the objective of specific ya~naa.? 
> 
> 
> yoga, niyoga, viniyoga, prayoga, and finally upayoga (for the performer of or for the society at large.)
> 
> 
> I just realized the typo while typing the name of diirghattamaa's? wife.? Her name was  pradveShii was and not "pradveHii".
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Dr. Yadu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
> To: Dr. Yadu Moharir <ymoharir at yahoo.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 8:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] tat gotra
> 
> 
> Dear Yaduji and Sriramji,
> 
> Kindly permit me to reply to both of you in one mail.
> 
> 1)
> Quote
> As far as I recall, Dirghattamaa also used to practice "goratii vidya" 
> that included union with union other women openly in the public and that
> is what prompted his wife, pradveHii to take-on another husband.? At 
> that time he introduced the concept of only "One Husband" for women.
> Unquote
> 
> I understand that there is also another story on ths concept. Once a boy saw his mother being taken away by another man and the boy asked his father as to how can a man take away his mother. Then the father replied that that was the order of the day. later on that boy became a great rishi and he introduced the concept of one husband for one woman. Of course there has been exception to this rule in subsequent history but the stricture stil remains that woman should not marry more than five man otherwise she would be considered a fallen woman. I forgot the name of that rishi but some members may remember that.
> 
> 2)
> Quote
> ?We can?t skip our morning meals and night dinner for one day, what to speak of ?chAndrAyaNa vratta?.
> Unquote
> 
> In the Kali yuga we have the "Annagata prana" and regulkar food is a must and that is why we do not have to feel
> bad for our? dependence on food much more than our ancestors had.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Sunil KB? 
> 
> --- On Sat, 6/11/11, Dr. Yadu Moharir <ymoharir at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> From: Dr. Yadu Moharir <ymoharir at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] tat gotra
>> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> Date: Saturday, June 11, 2011, 5:38 AM
>> 
>> 
>> Dear Venkat Sriram:
>> 
>> The only common denominator or the "Take Home Message" that stands out the stories narrated in your post is that "Sex has nothing to do with knowledge".? Sage Vyasa is a living proof of this.? If not for his seeds? Mahaabhaarata would not have been born !?? All of us know the stories, so no need to again document them explicitly..
>> 
>> 
>> As far as I
> recall, Dirghattamaa also used to practice "goratii vidya" that included union with union other women openly in the public and that is what prompted his wife, pradveHii to take-on another husband.? At that time he introduced the concept of only "One Husband" for women.
>> 
>> 
>> Rgds,
>> 
>> Dr. Yadu
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Venkata sriram P <venkatasriramp at yahoo.in>
>> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 3:45 AM
>> Subject: [Advaita-l] tat gotra
>> 
>> Dear Shri Murty,
>> ?
>> Answers to these issues were already clarified by me in my old post on
>> relationship between Kashyapa Prajapati & Aditi.? The Vidhi & Nishedhas
>> in Veda are only to
> ordinary mortals like us.? 
>> ?
>> There are two types of births among the Seers depending upon the medium of placing the
>> rEtas (semen).? One is ?bIja pradhAna? and other is ?kShEtra pradhAna?.? Purusha Virya 
>> decides the bIja pradhAna janma and strI shONita decides the kShEtra pradhAna janma.
>> Among the ancient seers, it was ?bIja pradhAna janma? that was more important.? It doesn?t Manner, in which kShEtra, the bIja is placed, it is their ?tapas shakti? that is being transferred through their rEtas into the kShEtra.? ?Thus, whoever is born through the Rishi, perform the tapas, regain their brahma tEjas & Ojas and attain brAhmaNatva.? This is only possible?through penance & prAyaschittAs.? The Rishis who are Mantra Drashtas are beyond this.?? Because, they regain their lost luster, penance with prAyaschitta kANDa and perform the tapas again with doubled
> vigour.? I would like to cite couple of instances of 
>> 2 great seers (mantra draShTAs) who blessed the posterity with great mahAmantras 
>> & sUktAs of Rg Veda.? They are VisvAmitra & Dirghatamas. 
>> ?
>> The biographical sketch of Viswamitra & Dirgatamas who are famous 
>> mantra draShTAs in Rg Veda stand testimony to this.
>> ?
>> While performing tapas, visvAmitra succumbed to Menaka.? Lost his tapas sakti. 
>> performed the tapas again and regained the vigour.? Succumbed to his own
>> anger, fought with Vashishta.? Lost his tapas sakti.? Performed the penance again
>> and regained his vigour.? At last, he attained the brAHmaNatva and was declared
>> as brahmarishi by none other than Vashishta.? He gifted the humanity with
>> Gayatri Mantra.? He is gifted with a son Madhucchandas who is again another
>> Great tapasvi and mantra draShTa who outwitted his own father in 
>> mantra
> darShaNa for envisioning gayatri mantra 52 times.? It is said that
>> visvAmitra envisioned gAyatri 50 times whereas his son madhucchandas
>> envisoned 52 times.? Both blessed us with great sUktAs of Rg Veda.? 
>> ?
>> Now, take the case of dIrghatamas who envisioned the most powerful and
>> most fabulous sUkta of Rg Veda called ?asyavAmIya sUkta? also called
>> ?suparNa sUkta?.? It has 52 riks and is supposed to be highly symbolic 
>> in nature with several esoteric meanings that extend even to the principles
>> of jyOtiShya, tantra, srividya etc.? 
>> ?
>> The father of dIrghamas was Rishi Uttichya.? Uttitchya and Brihaspati were brothers. 
>> The wife of Uttichya is Mamata.? One fine day, Mamata conceives through Uttichya.? 
>> When she was 7 months pregnant, Uttichya has leave for nearby village
>> to officiate a kratu.? ?Taking the advantage of the absence of Uttichya,
> Brihaspati
>> approaches Mamata for maithuna. Mamata refuses being pregnant. The
>> child inside the womb of Mamata was listening to the words of Brihaspati 
>> accuses Brihaspati of his immoral behavious. Brihaspati, thus, enraged, curses
>> the child to be born as blind. And thus, Child was born without eyesight and 
>> hence he was named ?dIrghatamas?. ?dIrgha? means ?prolonged? and ?tamas?
>> means ?darkness?.? Because, he was born blind and everything was dark before him
>> at the time of birth, he was named so.? 
>> ?
>> The same rishi dIrghatamas is said to have performed Agni Upasana and 
>> regains his lost eyesight.? With intense tapas again, blessed us with wonderful
>> sukta of Rg Veda called ?asyavAmIya sUkta? which has the famous mantras like
>> ?dvA suparNa sAyujya sakhA?.?, ?ekaM sat viprAh bahudhA vadanti?, 
>> ?gaurIrmimAya salilAni????aShTapadi navapadi babhUvuShi
> sahasrAkSharA 
>> paramE vyOman? etc. 
>> ?
>> In the long run, he marries a beautiful girl.? This wife ditches the sage.? When he was doing penance, he was carried away by the hooligans and thrown in a river.? Poor Dirghatamas swam across the river and married a dAsi (servant) and through them (Dirghatamas & the dAsi), was born a great seer of Rg Veda whose name is kakShivAn, another stalwart in 
>> Rg Veda Mantra Darshana Bhaga.? 
>> ?
>> So, the moral of these is that, riShIs, even though, they succumb to the pressures of
>> Virtues & vices, they regain their lost lusture, ojas sakti, tapas sakti through performance
>> of penance with doubled-vigour and prAyaschittAs.? They possess so much of
>> mental strength that they used to perform ?chAndrAyaNa vrata? as a part of prAyaschitta.
>> We ordinary mortals neither perform the tapas like the ancient seers nor possess 
>> the mental stamina of performance
> of prAyaschitta kANDa.? ?We can?t skip our morning meals and night dinner for one day, what to speak of ?chAndrAyaNa vratta?.? 
>> ?
>> So, one is free to emulate them and exercise free will provided, they too possess the
>> tapas sakti like that of our ancient seers.? And hence, the source of origin of rivers & 
>> seers should not be asked (riShi mUla & nadi mUla).
>> ?
>> Sage Valmiki has blessed us with Srimad Ramayana as he has foreseen the events in
>> Kali Yuga and there would be more questioners on dharma sAstra who would be interested only in jignAsa but not acharaNa.? And hence, put forth Lord Ramachandra & Acharya Hanuman before us to emulate them.
>> ?
>> rAmO vigrahavAn dharmaH
>> ?
>> regs,
>> sriram
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 19:01:23 +0000
> From: krismanian at gmail.com
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Advaita-l Digest, Vol 83, Issue 10
> Message-ID: <00151749446efa64e504a5744f24 at google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes
> 
> Dear Sriram,
> The only moral of the story I can see is that "There were no morals" !
> They did what ever they wanted (just like the US politicians or for that  
> matter any politician) and made rules as they went along
> and also tried a firewall that in Kali uga people will question this. No  
> sane person can take this as moral values.
> This is like the TV evangelicals here in US, who had sexual escapades and  
> then cry and apologise and we all stand in awe ,"Oh what a penance they  
> did!"
> How could learned people take such rediculous stories for moral values?  
> Atleast one thing I take from this is that " It is not to whom you were  
> born or
> how you were born, any body has the potential to become great"
> 
> Kris
> 
> On Jun 11, 2011 10:00am, advaita-l-request at lists.advaita-vedanta.org wrote:
> 
>> So, the moral of these is that, riShIs, even though, they succumb to the  
>> pressures of
> 
> 
>> Virtues & vices, they regain their lost lusture, ojas sakti, tapas sakti  
>> through performance
> 
> 
>> of penance with doubled-vigour and prAyaschittAs.? They possess so much of
> 
> 
>> mental strength that they used to perform ?chAndrAyaNa vrata? as a part  
>> of prAyaschitta.
> 
> 
>> We ordinary mortals neither perform the tapas like the ancient seers nor  
>> possess
> 
> 
>> the mental stamina of performance of prAyaschitta kANDa.? ?We can?t skip  
>> our morning meals and night dinner for one day, what to speak  
>> of ?chAndrAyaNa vratta?.?
> 
> 
>> ?
> 
> 
>> So, one is free to emulate them and exercise free will provided, they too  
>> possess the
> 
> 
>> tapas sakti like that of our ancient seers.? And hence, the source of  
>> origin of rivers &
> 
> 
>> seers should not be asked (riShi mUla & nadi mUla).
> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 12:08:12 -0700 (PDT)
> From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
>    <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Anubhava
> Message-ID: <378752.26328.qm at web65903.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> Shree Satchitananda sastryji - PraNAms
> ?
> To have a clear vision of advaitic truth only, one needs to approach a competent teacher and study Vedanta for a length of time until there are no more doubts such as these you have asked.
> Advaita by definition cannot be a anubhava. It is a clear understanding that -what I am looking for is what I am already - where the seeker and sought have become one - not at physical or transactional plane- but from the plane of understanding. Going beyond etc are all figurative terms used to indicate that the truth that I am cannot be objectified; yet intensely experienced all the time, whether one knows it or not. What do I have to do to experience myself as myself? I am myself all the time, even though I take myself something other than myself. It is an understanding that I am the substratum of both the subject-object duality that is perceived or experienced in all my transactions. That is the advaita, in spite of apparent dvaita or experiencer-experienced-experiencing triad. 
> ?
> For clear understanding I recommend to study - tat tvam asi - in the www.advaitaforum.org, the series of articles that appeared in this list as well, couple of years ago.? 
> Hari Om!
> Sadananda
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Sat, 6/11/11, Anand Jammalamadaka <satchitjammalamadaka at gmail.com> wrote:
> What are the steps we initiate for? experiencing? the concept of Advaita
> 
> Is it possible to make a begining with this panchendrias. If so how !
> 
> Like one tries to imagine on outer circumference while being within a circle
> !
> 
> Is it for mere knowledge we are discussing Advaita
> 
> What are the mental projections required to go beyond mind and manas but
> taking their help at the start
> 
> How do we integrate Mahavakyas given by Sankaracharya from upanishads to
> wards advaiata !
> 
> - Satchidananda sastry Jammalamadaka
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 20:21:19 +0100
> From: Rajaram Venkataramani <rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
>    <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Subject: [Advaita-l] Was Madhusudana Saraswati Influenced by Gaudiya
>    Vaishnavas?
> Message-ID: <BANLkTinAJWTEaMfbce_BDUhDa4HJtN=AGA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> <Quote>
> 
> Dear Rajaramji,
> 
> Yes. Madhusudana Saraswati was a bengali by birth and at the time of his
> birth, Bengal was under the influence of Krishna Chaitanya's Madhura Bhakti
> Marga. He adopted that.
> 
> BTW, the Bhakti in Advaita is defined as "sva-svarUpa anusandhAnaM
> bhaktiritabhidhIyatE" (vide reference Vivekachudamani).  Further Sankara
> says that
> "svAtma tattvAnusandhAnaM bhaktiritiaparE jaguH".
> 
> Shri Chandrasekhara Bharati while commenti
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