[Advaita-l] (Advaita) Bhakti vs. Jnana

[Rajaram Venkataramani]

All I asked was a simple question about which marga is superior - bhakti or
jnana marga. What you have stated is one point of view within the advaita,
which I am of course aware of. Luckily you question my basic knowledge and
sincerity. This prompted me to challenge you on avidya. It is a very
basic question and you have not answered it yet. There are more deeper
questions and answers. It is strange that you claim knowledge of the subject
but incorrectly identify the source of the question (gaudiyas, naiyayikas
etc.). I recommend wider and deeper reading first.

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Ramesh Krishnamurthy <rkmurthy at gmail.com>wrote:

> On 3 July 2011 11:12, Rajaram Venkataramani <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > For your kind information, this is not a gaudiya question at all! Instead
> > of
> > questioning my sincerity or knowledge, why don't you engage in a
> scholarly
> > discussion that will enrich everyone's understanding please? That is the
> > purpose of this forum. Thanks.
> >
>
>
> Questions are rarely standalone, they are almost always asked from within a
> certain framework (i.e. certain background assumptions, often implicit).
> Without the framework, the said questions will not arise.
>
> A scholarly discussion (which enriches everyone's understanding) sometimes
> needs to point out that the problem is with the framework, instead of
> trying
> to answer the questions that arise from that framework. Needless to say, it
> is usually a futile exercise to try to answer questions that arise from a
> problematic framework.
>
> A person who is explicitly or implicitly committed to certain frameworks
> (such as gauDiya, sometimes even naiyyAyika, and certain others)  is
> unlikely to be able to appreciate advaita-vedAnta. Such a person's mind
> will
> keep coming up with questions that are actually tangential / irrelevant to
> advaita-vedAnta. You may of course disagree with this, but this is not just
> my opinion. Several respected advaita AchArya-s hold such an opinion. I
> know
> this from having attended their classes/debates, and from the advice they
> provided to some of my fellow sAdhaka-s. Thankfully, I did not come to
> vedAnta with the baggage of any such framework.
>
> The entire history of the questions you have put to this list, and your
> responses on various threads, are indicative of the framework(s) inherent
> in
> your questions. The questions would not have arisen without those
> frameworks. I have only pointed this out.
>
> Perhaps I went a little overboard by talking about sincerity etc, but I
> hope
> you will understand what I am trying to say, even if you disagree.
>
> On the issue of bhakti vs. j~nAna, it is very clear that j~nAna alone is
> the
> key to mokSha. As far as bhakti is concerned, there are different views on
> it within the tradition. There are occasions when bhakti is equated to
> vichAra (as in the vivekachUDAmaNi verse quoted by Smt. Sumitha
> Ramachandran), but such an equation would effectively render your question
> redundant. If we use the term "bhakti" in a more conventional sense, it is
> clear that such bhakti is not the proximate cause of mokSha, although it is
> admitted as a means for chitta-shuddhi.
>
> BG shlokas 9.13-9.15 should be understood with this broader picture in
> mind.
> It is not at all necessary for an advaitin, whether mukta or sAdhaka, to
> either glorify or offer obeisances in a literal sense. A sAdhaka may do so
> for chitta-shuddhi. For the mukta, there are no rules and, in any case, he
> sees everyone and everything as himself. Some may refer to this (the
> mukta's
> advaita bhAva) as bhakti, which is again a case of unconventional usage.
>
> Thanks
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