[Advaita-l] Is Isvara paramartika?

[Rajaram Venkataramani]

On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 6:40 AM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>wrote:

>  If on the other hand you hold Ishwara is the very subject, non-different
> from the Self, then, thank God !  Ishwara is saved: He is satyam.
>
RV: Thank you for saving Isvara :) All perceptions of Isvara as an external
object is false because it is an operation of the mind but Isvara is
repeatedly asserted as the Self.

Sri Bhaskar: He clearly states that the existence of Ishwara and his
qualities like  omnipotence, omniscience etc. are only in the realm of
avidyA.  So, IMO, before deciding anything about Ishwara's paramArta astitva
(absolute existence) , we have to reconcile these statements of shankara and
most importantly without disturbing the shruti-s and advaita's
ultimate position i.e. Atman's ekamevAdviteeyatva.

RV: The Lord's existence is NOT dependent on Maya but Lord's "existence as
the Ruler" is dependent on Maya. Due to ignorance, in the realm of jivas,
the jivas fail to recognize the Lord as their own innermost consciousness or
Self. It is not that due to Maya, the jivas think that there is an entity
called the Lord. In this context. Sankara gives the example of the space and
that enclosed within the pot. On the destruction of the pot, there is no
more existence of a greater space outside the pot but the great space exists
as before. Like that, the Isvara continues to exist as Brahman.

His rulership is relative to a ruled entity. His omnipotence is relative to
the sphere of activity. His omniscience is relative to objects. But the
"omniscient Lord" is different from the names and forms. Sankara asserts,
"Different from them is the omniscient Lord himself, as we learn from
scriptural passages such as the following, 'He who is called ether is the
revealer of all forms and names; that within which these forms and names are
contained is Brahman' (*Kh*. Up. VIII, 14, 1);" This is because all the
names and forms are in Brahman as Brahman.  He is jnapti or undifferentiated
knowledge.

namāmi tvānanta-śaktiḿ pareśam
sarvātmānaḿ *kevalaḿ jñapti-mātram*
viśvotpatti-sthāna-saḿrodha-hetuḿ
yat tad brahma brahma-lińgam praśāntam (SBh. 10.63.25)