[Advaita-l] Does Brahman Know?

[D.V.N. Sarma]

nonta.h prajnam na bahishprajnam nobhyata.h prajnam
na prajnam nAprajnam na prajnana ghanam

mANDUkya upanishad.

regards,
Sarma.

On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Ananth Padmanabhan <
padmanabhan_ananth at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Agreed that the Chaitanyam end-state goal of a mumukshu and is the
> 'advaitic' state where the 'observer-observation-observed' all collapse
> together in to a non-dual state that is 'Brahman'. This is where the Subject
> fuses with the predicate and object as one Blissful state.
> The examples of the bee-honey, human-iddli&chutney are all stages that one
> has to cross over to reach this ultimate state. As Bhagavan Sri Ramana
> Maharishi has stated in his 'Naan Yaar (Who Am I?)' , all the material used
> to understand the 'SELF' have to be  given up , or rather go away, at the
> ultimate 'Self Realization' and he uses the example of the 'pinamchudu
> thadi' (the stick that is used to make sure that the body is fully cremated
> to ashes by the person at the graveyard who manages the cremation, finally
> throws the stick also in to the fire to become ashes!).
>
> For every mumukshu, the paths to Realization vary (as the scriptures
> portray) and some unique paths are also possible. Even Iddli-Chutney-Flour
> example could trigger a mumukshu to understand the unitary State. It is all
> driven by the Ultimate GRACE that makes itself understood and reached.
> Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharishi realized HIS SELF from his own strange
> experience of 'simulated death' and subsequent enquiry within HIMSELF that
> resolved the mystery to reach HIMSELF.
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 23:17:41 +0530
> > From: v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
> > To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Does Brahman Know?
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 1:47 AM, Rajaram Venkataramani <
> > rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Ishwara* *knows nirguna brahman and its exstence as Himself, jIvA and
> > > jagat.
> > > He is also infinitely blissful. His devotees experience this bliss (as
> > > visuddha sattva does not obstruct). There are infinite attributes and
> > > experiences through karma, yoga and bhakti. Each one of these and the
> > > experience of jnana is also known to Ishwara (Lord Krishna says that
> there
> > > is nothing hire than jnana. So he must know that experience also). When
> a
> > > jIvA realizes Ishwara, he can get any or all of these experiences
> because
> > > Ishwara favours His devotees with sarsti etc. A jIvA who is attracted
> to
> > > Ishwara with the intention of becoming absolutely one with Him might
> > > consider that goal is achieved at some stage. But in reality, does he
> reach
> > > the same state as Vishnu of omniscience and omnipotence? Or does he get
> > > tricked in to a state by Vishnu that he thinks there is no Vishnu,
> jagat
> > > etc.? One who likes idli will eat it with chutney but not want to
> become
> > > flour.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Namaste.
> >
> > Vedanta does not present Brahman as a bhogya vastu, an object that is to
> be
> > experienced/enjoyed. Any bhogya vastu is inert.  When a man is said to
> have
> > people as bhogya is not experiencing the chaitanya but only the body,
> mind,
> > etc. which all are prakRti and inert.  On the other hand Vedanta teaches
> > that the aspirant is none other than Brahman.  Brahman is taught as
> > 'vijnAnam Anandam Brahma'.  Brahman IS Bliss.  The Upanishads do not say
> > 'Brahman experiences Bliss'.  Such a propostion would make Brahman a
> > something/someone different from Bliss and the Bliss itself an inert
> > object.  The Upanishad also teaches 'He who realizes Brahman is Brahman',
> > 'You are That', 'I am Brahman', etc.  Such a realization does not
> > *require*the Knower to 'experience' the Bliss
> > *of *Brahman, for, as stated earlier, Brahman IS Bliss; Brahman is not
> the
> > 'experiencer' of Bliss.  Since the one who realizes Brahman IS Brahman,
> the
> > question of 'experiencing' (as a transitive verb)  Brahman/Bliss is
> simply
> > not there at all in the Vedantic moksha. The analogies of sugar-taster of
> > sugar, Idli-chutney and the eater thereof, etc. do not have any relevance
> in
> > the *final stages *of Vedanta sadhana, realization and moksha.  All the
> > vibhutis of Brahman that a devotee might find enjoyable/blissful are also
> > inert alone.  Even 'persons/gods' named as vibhutis of Brahman are
> > essentially Chaitanyam, none other than that Brahman but their name/form
> > belong to prakRti.  The teaching of Vibhuti-s and  their adoration is a
> > stepping stone for the final culmination of transcending even this stage
> and
> > realizing the identity with Brahman, free of all manifestations
> > (vibhuti-s).  This is because, the experiencer/adorer of these vibhuti-s
> is
> > a someone with the instruments/apparatus with which alone this adoration
> is
> > possible.  This apparatus is taught to be prakRti, not the essential
> > chaitanyam which alone is this adorer in truth.
> >
> > Regards,
> > subrahmanian.v
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