[Advaita-l] Jnana-karma samuccaya.

[V Subrahmanian]

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 2:52 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:

> Even the thought 'I want it' should not be there in your mind.
> That alone is true 'virakti' ".
> 'true mind control' is that state of mind, where you
> do not even entertain the thought that you need something.
>
> praNAms
> Hare Krishna
>
> But it has been said somewhere in this list itself that jnAni would get
> 'feelings' like kAmAdi and later on he will subdue / controls it through
> viveka/jnAna...Though subsequently it has been clarified (by another
> prabhuji of this list) that this would happens automatically without any
> effort, the jnAni's getting the feelings of kAma, krOdha were not
> denied...paramahamsa rAmakrishna's kAma feeling example has been given to
> prove this...But here above HH saying that true mind control is the state
> where there is no thought of this sort!! If Sri rAmakrishna paramahaMsa
> got  this kAma thought & wept in paNchavati & prayed mAta means either he
> was not kAya, vAcha, manasa virakta or he set an example to disciples  as
> how to overcome kAmAdi dOsha-s by the bhakta..But please note example
> given to prove that even jnAni-s also would entertain kAmAdi feelings.
>
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> bhaskar
>

A reply to the above is to be found here:

http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/2010-June/024742.html

The highlight of the above is this:

In the Bhagavadgita Bhashya for the 16th chapter we have this:

अहिम्सा सत्यमक्रोधः....16.2

For the word 'akrodhaH' above the Bhashyam says:  परैः आक्रुष्टस्य अभिहतस्य
वा *प्राप्तस्य क्रोधस्य* *उपशमनं अक्रोधः* ।   The meaning is:  *Suppression
of anger* *that has arisen *when beaten or reviled.

In the very next verse, there occurs a word: क्षमा for which the Bhashyam
is:

*आक्रुष्टस्य ताडितस्य वा अन्तर्विक्रिया अनुत्पत्तिः*, उत्पन्नायां
विक्रियायां उपशमनमक्रोध इत्यवोचाम ।

Forgiveness: *unaffectedness when beaten or reviled.*  We have explained
(above) 'absence of anger' (akrodhaH) to mean suppression of anger when IT
ARISES.  Thus forgiveness and absence of anger should be distinguished from
each other.

*From the above two bhashyam passages it becomes clear that: There is a
*mind, mental state, that is affected, that is, a vikAra takes place, anger
arises, when beaten or scolded.

There is another mind, another mental state, where even the vikAra does not
arise, no anger arises, when beaten or scolded.  Both these states are in
daivee sampat.

There can be a Jnani who is in the first category and another Jnani in the
second category.  For the first Jnani, anger arises and thereafter he quells
it.  For the second Jnani there is no need to even quell anger as it does
not even arise in the first place.  The first one is a little disturbed; the
second is least disturbed.  This is one typical case where one can see the
real-life basis for the distinction between/across Jnanis.  And remember
both these states are WITHIN the daivee sampat.

The same can be said with desire, kAma, too.  There can be two mental
states, two minds, one where kAma arises and is quelled and another where
kAma does not even arise (when the stimulus is present).  Surely, the minds
are products of prakrti, they are the results of samskaras.  They can be
improved upon, with effort, if one desires.  So, in this typical case, Jnani
1 can put in efforts to have a state of mind that Jnani 2 enjoys.  However,
it is emphasised that there is no difference in their Atma Jnanam and the
mukti/moksha that they have attained even when Jnanam dawned.  All these
differences in mental states are relevant only during the life time of the
Jnani.  It can be very well imagined that for the same Jnani the two mental
states can occur in different situations.  It is quite possible.  And only
this possibility opens the further possibility of one improving the
condition of the mind.  And that is what the crux of 'Jivanmukti
viveka' of Swami Vidyaranya is.

Your observation:

//But please note example given to prove that even jnAni-s also would
entertain kAmAdi feelings.//

is not appropriate.  The word 'entertain' is not correct.  He might
get the feeling; it is
a product of vasana. However, he will not give it power by
'entertaining' it. He will make
all efforts to diffuse it.  That is what Sri Ramakrishna did in that
incident. The tool of pratipakShabhAvana is available to him for this.

Regards,
subrahmanian.v