[Advaita-l] GYAnimAtra and the sthitapraGYa (was Re: FW: Avidya, Jnanis and SSS' views)

[V Subrahmanian]

Dear Karthik,

The quote from the JMV (see below) clearly says that the akRtopaasti, with
aparoksha jnAnam *does have real, liberating, Jnana and that their Jnana
does not fade and the avidya that has been dispelled is not reversed.*

They do not have vaasanakshaya and manonasha to the extent that merits the
title 'jivanmukta' to them.  Nevertheless they are 'vidaan'. He is a mukta
for whom the avidya nivRtti has taken place due to samyag jnana.  The
akRtopAsti of the JMV has both these accomplished.

The 'prayatna' that you and the JMV have mentioned is only to achieve
mano-nasha and vasana kshaya.  He need not make any prayatna for
samyagjnanam; he has already made that and achieved it.  The JMV is very
clear about that.

In your quote, the English translation provided by you is slightly incorrect
to the original:

 tasmAdidanIMtanAnAM vidvatsaMnyAsinAM
> GYAnasyAnuvR^ittimAtram.h .
> >   vAsanAkshayamanonAshau tu
> prayatnasaMpAdyAv iti sthitam .
> >
> >   "So it is held that for the
> vidvatsannyIs of these days only
> >   the GYAna continues. VAsanAkshaya and
> manonAsha are to be
> >   accomplished by effort to make it
> steady (sthitaM)."

The words 'prayatnasaMpAdyAv iti sthitam' of the original only means:
'vaasanakshaya and manonaasha are to be achieved by effort'. (note the
dvi-vachanam for prayatnasampaadyvav) The word 'sthitam' of the original has
been translated by you as 'make it steady'.  This is not the way it is.  The
original uses the word 'sthitam' only to say that 'the fact is that this
akRitopAsti has to put in efforts to achieve vk and mn.  This is certain -
iti sthitam. '  He uses the word 'sthitam' here to say that such is the
'settled' view.

In the JMV the vidvat sanyasi of the akRtopAsti type is a mukta,  only
requiring to do something to become a jivanmukta.  The vidvat sanyasi who is
a kRtopAsti is also a mukta and a jivanmukta at that not requiring prayatna
for vk and mn.


Best regards,
subrahmanian.v



इदानीन्तनास्तु प्रायेण अकृतोपास्तय एव औत्सुक्यमात्रात् सहसा विद्यायां
प्रवर्तन्ते । वासनाक्ष्य-मनोनाशौ च तात्कालिकौ सम्पादयन्ति । तावता
श्रवणमनननिध्यासनानि निष्पाद्यन्ते ।  तैश्च दृढाभ्यस्तैरज्ञान-संशय-विपर्
ययनिरासात् *तत्त्वज्ञानं सम्यगुदेति *।  उदितस्य ज्ञानस्य बाधकप्रमाणाभावात्
निवृत्ताया अविद्यायाः पुनसुत्पत्तिकारणाभाच्च *नास्ति तस्य शथिल्यम्* ।
*वासनाक्ष्य-मनोनाशौ
तु दृढाभ्यासाभावात् भोगप्रदेन प्रारब्धेन तदा तदा बाध्यमानत्वाच्च
सवातप्रदेशदीपवत्सहसा निवर्तते *।

Nowadays men rush in quest of Jnana,  out of sheer curiosity, in most cases
even without going through the preliminary stage of upasana.  *They even
reach the stage of obliteration of vasana and the dissolution of the mind
for the time being*, and in consequence, study, contemplation and
assimilation (of the VEdanta) are also fully accomplished by repeated
application to these three; ignorance, doubt and false perception are
demolished; *and real Jnana is achieved*.  In the absence of a more powerful
means to counteract it and of any cause which can resuscitate the ignorance
dispelled by it, *the resultatnt Jnana does not fade.*  *But then the
obliteration of vasana and the dissolution of the mind are easily
extinguished*, like a lamp exposed to the breeze, for want of steady
application and in consequence of being influenced, from time to time, by
the fruit-bearing previous karma.

[translation complete]

From the above the is clear :
 the second type, (akRtopAsti) according to JMV, is an aparoksha jnani, a
mukta, not to return to samsara,


On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 1:23 AM, S Jayanarayanan <sjayana at yahoo.com> wrote:

> --- On Thu, 5/6/10, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 6:43 AM, S
> > Jayanarayanan <sjayana at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > From the above the is clear :
> > > >
> > > >    1. The KRtopAsti and akRtopAsti of
> > JMV is
> > > > slightly different from
> > > >    Bhagavan Ramana's view.
> > > >    2. Accordingly, the second type,
> > > > according to JMV, is an aparoksha jnani,
> > > >    a mukta, not to return to samsara,
> > but as
> > > > per Bhagavan he is not; he is
> > > >    'likely to forget it'.  At
> > least,
> > > > that is the impression I get from the
> > > >    excerpt provided by you below.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Not so. According to the JMV, the second type is NOT a
> > mukta. To continue
> > > the JMV quote from above:
> > >
> > >   tasmAdidanIMtanAnAM vidvatsaMnyAsinAM
> > GYAnasyAnuvR^ittimAtram.h .
> > >   vAsanAkshayamanonAshau tu
> > prayatnasaMpAdyAv iti sthitam .
> > >
> > >   "So it is held that for the
> > vidvatsannyIs of these days only
> > >   the GYAna continues. VAsanAkshaya and
> > manonAsha are to be
> > >   accomplished by effort to make it
> > steady (sthitaM)."
> > >
> > > Note that the second kind of students do NOT have
> > steady knowledge! Hence
> > > they are NOT sthitapraGYas, and hence NOT
> > jIvanmuktas!
> > >
>
> The akR^itopAsti (or more precisely, the GYAnimAtra) is not a mukta, and is
> never mentioned as such in the JMV. Mukti implies that no further effort
> needs to be made towards the goal of liberation. But the JMV uses the word
> "prayatna" in reference to this second kind (see quote above), with the
> implication that this person still has to make further effort (prayatna) to
> achieve vAsnAkShaya-manonAsha, and hence cannot yet be considered a mukta.
>

I have shown the 'prayatna' is not for samyagjnanam; only for vk and mn.
Even without this prayatna he is a mukta; the prayatna is his option; he may
or may not do it.  vk and mn are NOT mandatory for moksha; they ARE
mandatory for jivanmukti.

>
>
>