[Advaita-l] Bh.Gita verse 18.73 - Was Arjuna an 'aparoksha Jnani'? - Part 4

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste Sri Jaldhar Vyas

Request you explain Adi Sankara's comments in BSB 3.4.20 -
http://www.archive.org/stream/vedntasutrastr02bdar/vedntasutrastr02bdar_djvu.txt

'To these objections we
make the following reply. The term ' brahmasamstha '
denotes fulfilment in Brahman, a state of being grounded
in Brahman to the exclusion of all other activity. Now
such a state is impossible for persons belonging to the
three former asramas, as scripture declares that they suffer
loss through the non-performance of the works enjoined
on their asrama. The mendicant, on the other hand, who
has discarded all works can suffer no loss owing to non-
performance. Such duties as are incumbent on him, viz.
restraint of the senses and the like, are not opposed to
the state of being grounded in Brahman, but rather helpful
above those lower penances, indeed, there rises renuncia-
tion ; ' ' Those anchorites who have well ascertained the
object of the knowledge of the Vedanta and have purified
their nature by the Yoga of renunciation ' (Mu. Up. Ill,
2, 6)
to it. For the only work enjoined on him by his asrama
is the state of being firmly grounded in Brahman, wherein
he is strengthened by restraint of the senses and so on
just as sacrifices and the like are prescribed for the other
asramas  and loss he incurs only by neglecting that work.
In agreement herewith texts from scripture and Smriti
declare that for him who is grounded in Brahman there
are no works. Compare ' Renunciation is Brahman ; for
Brahman is the highest ; for the highest is Brahman ;
above those lower penances, indeed, there rises renuncia-
tion ; ' ' Those anchorites who have well ascertained the
object of the knowledge of the Vedanta and have purified
their nature by the Yoga of renunciation ' (Mu. Up. Ill,
2, 6) '

and

'In this way we understand that, although there is a
reference to the other stages of life, that which is indicated
by the quality of being grounded in Brahman is the state
of the wandering mendicant. '

Adi Sankara says sanyasa asrama is must for brahmasamstha. Other
asramas people commit sin if they do not perform duties . But these
duties will not allow them to be Brahmasamstha. They cannot be
Brahmasamstha. Only Sanyasi can be Brahmasamstha. If a man is not
Brahmasamstha he cannot get moksha. How can he ? Only Sanyasi can get
moksha . Who can be sanyasi? Brahmins. not non dvijas definitely . How
can they get moksha? Not.

Vidura is exception case because he had good samskaras from previous births.

Conclude non dvijas  not eligibile for moksha. they must be born again
as brahmins to get moksha.

itihasa purana knowledge cannot be Brahmavidya of Vedanta Otherwise
everybody will listen to itihasa purana only and leave Vedanta.
Itihasa purana will be easy path than vedanta because non dvijas even
can get same result without restrictions on food drink & life like
brahmins . then vedanta is not special brahmins are not special. this
is wrong conclusion. Correct conclusion itihasa purana can give punya
to be born as brahmin. to get a chance for moksha.

Regards,

-Venkatesh

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Jaldhar H. Vyas
<jaldhar at braincells.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, Venkatesh Murthy wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Jaldhar H. Vyas
>>
>> This is not correct.  Adi Sankara said Vidura and Dharmavyadha had
>> good samskaras from previous janma.
>> the result of this was jnana in
>> the non dvija janma.
>
> The point is whatever they did or did not do in previous janmas, they got
> jnana in their shudra janmas.  And Shankaracharya has no problem with
> stating that.  So why be unnecessarily strict about it?
>
>
>>  They were exceptions only probably 0.0000001% or
>> less of all people. All non dvijas cannot be like them. they are
>> disqualified from learning Brahmavidya
>>
>
> Percentages are not relevant.  All that needs to be proved is that it is
> possible (and I think you concede that it is) Then we leave it to individual
> effort and Bhagavans krpa.
>
>
>> In the smrutis it is written hot lead should be filled in ears of any
>> sudra or lower caste who hears the vedas. How can they hear vedanta?
>
> Leaving aside the hot lead in the ears thing which is hyperbole, it is true
> that they have no adhikara to learn Vedas.  But the point you are missing is
> that itihasa-purana _also_ contain Vedanta.  And this is not Taiwanese
> imitation Vedanta, it is the genuine article!
>
>> It is totally wrong and false propaganda by enemies of Vaidika
>> religion.
>>
>
> I must admit this is an unusual role to find myself in :-)
>
>> Adi Sankara said non dvijas cannot get Brahmavidya in Brahma sutra
>> 1.3.38 This is correct position.
>
> No he said they cannot study Vedas to get Brahmavidya.  This is not in
> doubt.
>
>> A brahmin who does not do sandhyavandana is treated like a sudra only. He
>> cannot get Brahmavidya.
>
>
> He can't get brahmavidya with sandhyavandana either.  Jnana is orthogonal to
> karma.
>
>> Adi Sankara did not write nondvija will get moksha from non vedanta.
>> You can check BSB. Where did he write  it? He wrote only they are
>> eligibile to hear itihasa puranas. The correct point is they will be
>> born as  brahmins in their next janma by hearing the itihasa puranas.
>>
>
> Here are his exact words:
>
> yeShAM punaH pUrvakR^itasaMskaravashAdviduradharmavyAdhaprabhR^itInAM
> GYAnotpattisteShAM na shakyate phalaprAptiH pratiShedhuM
> GYAnasyaikAntikaphalatvAt shrAvayechchaturo varNAn iti
> chetihAsapurANAdhigame chAturvarNyasyAdhikArasmaraNAt |
>
> "To those in whom as a result of previous good samskaras, such as Vidura and
> Dharmavyadha, jnana arises, the acquisition of its fruit cannot be denied
> since jnana always brings about its own fruit.  [The rule] "He should teach
> the four varnas" indicates that all four varnas are qualified for the
> knowledge of itihasa-puranas according to smrti."
>
>>> Advaita Vedanta allows for jivanmukti i.e. mukti in this lifetime.  That
>>> mukti is caused by jnAna and jnAna can arise in any ashrama or even no
>>> ashrama.  (See brahmasutra 3.4.36 antarA chApi tu taddR^iShTe)
>>
>> No. Adi Sankara wrote this for widowers. They cannot do yagas without
>> a wife. But they can do japa and worship the gods. It means they can
>> take sanyasa and become eligible for Brahmavidya. this is written in
>> 3.4.36. he did not write Gruhasthas and others can directly get
>> Brahmavidya without sanyasa. Where did he write it? Please check.
>>
>
> Widowers are given as an example but to provide for them only is not the
> purpose of this sutra.  ("But also those who stand between for it is seen")
>
> The key passage from the bhashya is:
>
> antarA chApi tu anAshramitvena vartamAno.api vidyAyAmadhikriyate | kuta.h |
> taddR^iShTe.h vAchaknavIprabhR^itInAmevaMbhutAnAmapi
> brahmavitvashrutyupalabdhe.h ||
>
> "even a person who by not now belonging to an Ashrama 'stands between', as
> it were, is qualified for getting brahmavidyA.  Why?  'For it is seen' in
> the cases of those of that type such as raikva and vAchaknavi who became
> brahmavids as shown in shruti."
>
> Now Raikva was a widower but Vachaknavi was an unmarried girl in the court
> of Videha.  Doesn't that contradict your argument?
>
>> A Gruhastha cannot directly get Brahmavidya.
>
> This will come as a shock to Maharshi Yajnavalkya who was not only a
> grhastha but had two wives!  Yet he is also called a jnani in Shruti and
> Advaita Vedanta accepts this without reservation.  Now it is true that upon
> enlightennment he immediately abandoned worldly life.  Jnana and sannyasa
> are inextricably linked but sometimes the sequence is sannyasa -> jnana,
> other times it is jnana -> sannyasa.  Neither invalidates the idea that
> jnana can arise in any ashrama or none.
>
> --
> Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>
>