[Advaita-l] Can a jnAni engage himself in a prohibited act??

[Sunil Bhattacharjya]

Namaste,
 
A Jnani can engage himself in act, which may appear prohibited to layman. Once Vedavyasa and his son Suka, the latter in his birthday suit, were walking past a lake, where nymphs were bathing naked. When Suka passed the nymphs were not perturbed but when Vedavyasa followed, the nymphs were disturbed and they ran for their clothes. Vedavyasa asked Suka the reason for the strange behaviour of the Nymphs. The latter replied saying that as he was not in his deha-bvava the nymphs were not disturbed. So the bhava is also to be considered when we consider whether any act is prohibited or not.
 
There is also a verse in the Bhagavad Gita of 745 verses saying the same thing.
 
Regards,
 
Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Wed, 7/14/10, Shyam <shyam_md at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Shyam <shyam_md at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Can a jnAni engage himself in a prohibited act??
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Wednesday, July 14, 2010, 5:24 AM


I am reproducing a post of my mine from a related list which expands on this context.

Hari OM
The second point I wanted to expand on was about whether/how a 
jnani would retain his individuality and continue to engage in activites
for the welfare of the world - such as teach Vedanta as in the case of 
our Gurus or write bhashyas and numerous prakarana granthas as in the 
case of Adi Shankara.
 
One viewpoint maybe that with self-realiztion there is a total 
destruction of the individual-based mind - an incapacity of a mind thus 
sublated into objectless awareness to then retain any semblance of 
affinity with the erstwhile body/mind/intellect complex.
 
Let us see how the sutrabhashya and Shankara in particular deals 
with this. The relevant section would be 3.3.32
 
32. Of those who have a certain office there is subsistence (of the
body) as long as the office lasts.
 
The sutra talks about those exalted Ones who have been bestowed a 
particular office by Ishwara - Lord Yama the teacher par excellence whom
Nachiketas praises as being the foremost of those adept at imparting 
BrahmavidyA would be one such example.
Let us now examine Shankara's gloss in some detail.
 
First let us understand the purvapakshin's contention/doubt
 
-We know from itihâsa and purâna that some persons although 
knowing Brahman yet obtained new bodies. - Tradition informs us, e.g. 
that Apântaratamas, an ancient rishi and teacher of the Vedas, was, by 
the order of Vishnu, born on this earth as Krishna Dvaipâyana at the 
time when the Dvâparayuga was succeeded by the Kaliyuga. Similarly 
Vasishtha, ..Smriti further relates that Bhrigu .... Sanatkumâra 
also...was born again as Skanda. ...Of some of the persons mentioned it 
is said that they assumed a new body after the old body had perished; of
others that they assumed, through their supernatural powers, various 
new bodies, while the old body remained intact all the while.
On the ground of all this the pûrvapakshin maintains that the 
knowledge of Brahman may, indifferently, either be or not be the cause 
of final release. 
 
In other words the Purvapakshin is giving various examples to show 
that if indeed self-realization would result in a total destruction of 
individuality and immediate release from samsara, then no continuation 
in vyavahara is rendered possible. In which case these examples would 
have to pertain to persons without self-knowledge. But the Shruti does 
attest to these being knowers of Brahman - in which case, contends the 
interlocutor, that the only possibility is that in some cases knowledge 
may not lead to moksha.
 
Explains Shankara:
This we deny, for the reason that the continuance of the bodily
existence of Aparantamas and others--who are entrusted with offices 
conducive to the subsistence of the worlds, such as the promulgation of 
the Vedas and the like--depends on those their offices."
 
Shankara points out the siddhanta that the continued existence of a
Knower is for the sake of lokakshema. A famous example is give of the 
Sun God - Savitr devata.
 
 As Savitar (the sun), who after having for thousands of yugas 
performed the office of watching over these worlds, at the end of that 
period enjoys release ....and as the present knowers
of Brahman reach the state of isolation after the enjoyment of those 
results of action, which have begun to operate, has come to an end, 
according to Ch. Up. 6.14.2 'For him there is only delay so long as he 
is not delivered from the body;' so Aparântamas and other Lords to whom
the highest Lord has entrusted certain offices, last--although 
they possess complete knowledge, the cause of release--as long 
as their office lasts, their works not yet being exhausted, and obtain 
release only when their office comes to an end. 
 
Now a doubt may be entertained that perhaps even though these 
Knowers' bodies and minds continue to exist for the welfare of the world
the Knowers themselves do not harbor any such desire or will, and more 
importantly do not have any notion of their individuality. Anticipating 
this Shankara clarifies
 
"...Passing according to their free will from
one body into another, as if from one house into another, in order to 
accomplish the duties of their offices; preserving all the 
time the memory of their identity; they create for 
themselves ..new bodies, and occupy them either all at once or in 
succession. Nor can it be said that when passing into new bodies they 
remember only the fact of their former existence (not their 
individuality); for it is known that they preserve the sense of
their individuality. 
Smriti tells us, e.g. that Sulabhâ, a woman conversant with Brahman, 
wishing to dispute with Ganaka, left her own body, entered into that of 
Ganaka, carried on a discussion with him, and again returned into her 
own body. 
 
But - clarifies Shankara this by no means indicates that these 
works will bear further fruit or will prevent the emancipation which has
already per force been secured by samyag jnana. As he attests further:
 
If in addition to the works - the consequences of which are 
already in operation, other works manifested themselves, constituting 
the cause of further embodiments, ...then it might be suspected that the
knowledge of Brahman may, indifferently, either be or not be the cause 
of final release. But such a suspicion is inadmissible since it is known
from Sruti and Smriti that knowledge completely destroys the 
potentiality of action." ...The aggregate of works, however, whose 
fruits have once begun to develop themselves comes to rest through 
effecting a delay which terminates with the death of the body, just as 
an arrow discharged stops in the end owing to the gradual cessation of 
its impetus; this in agreement with Ch. Up. 6.14.2 'For him there is 
only delay,' 
 
Thus it is clear that post-realization the verisame 
ignorant mind alone is what is rendered free by self-knowledge - this 
self-knowledge does not fortunately result in an immediate annihilation 
of the mind and its attendant sense of individuality and memory but the 
latter continue to function verimuch in the realm of the transactional -
in accordance with the Order, and unfettered as the resultant actions 
and behavior are - as a result of the person's samyag jnana they do 
not in any way compromise on or serve as an impediment to the already 
secured mukti.
 
Hari OM
Shri Gurubhyoh namah
Shyam


--- On Wed, 7/14/10, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:

From: V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Can a jnAni engage himself in a prohibited act??
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Wednesday, July 14, 2010, 1:18 AM

It is not avatara, if you are in that impression.  He is a jiva, mukta, now
taken a body, and after the expiry of the prArabdha karma will be finally
liberated.  He will not have kartrutva / bhoktrutva bhaava then.

For that matter, all jivas, when punarjanma is there, in avidyAvasthA, are
said to be incarnating every time.  That is why they say 'Hinduism believes
in re-incarnation.'   Vyasa's case is no different in as much as another
body is taken and lived out.  The only difference is that in this case
avidya / ajnana is not the cause of the new incarnation; it is the command
of Ishwara.



On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Br. Pranipata Chaitanya <
pranipata at hotmail.com> wrote:

> You said it yourself, in your own words....
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "V Subrahmanian" <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>
>
>> apAntaratamo nAma muniH kali-dvApara-sandhau vyAsatvena sambabhUva - a
>> sage
>> named 'apAntaratamas' incarnated in the confluence of Kali and dvApara
>> yuga-s with the name / position of 'vyAsa'.
>>
>>
>>
> incarnation is not reincarnation of jantus.
>
>
>
>
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