[Advaita-l] Fwd: A perspective -20

[Anbu sivam2]

Dear Sunilji,

One of the vexed aspect of the mind is to generalize everything.  Vedanta is
simply opposed to generalization when in comes to liberation.  It is a
unique situation for each individual.

The general idea is as follows:

Because of the beginningless ignorance one has attachment such as to the
body, wife, children and so on.

This mOham leads him to sOkam or misery.  Thus the jeeva is
sOkamOhamahOdhadhow nimagnan.

In order to escape from this ocean of misery clearly the first step is to
reverse the attachment. Our AachaaryaaL eloquently states the steps to
liberation in the following verse.

SathsangathvE nissangathwam
nissangathwE nirmOhathwam
nirmOhathwE nischalathathwam
nischalathathwE jeevan mukthi:

Worship of the ishta devathaa is the sathsangam.  Performing nishkaamakarmam
by surrendering the fruit of karma to bhagavan is sathsangam.  However
bhagavan does give you your fruit of karma in the form of a Guru.

I have already stated that such ability to surrender to a Guru comes out of
sukrutham in many many births.  Therefore one should keep doing the
sukrutham as above ceaselessly and wait for the golden fruit of Guru from
Easwara.  When that happens one will be drawn to him like a piece of iron to
the magnet.

There is no short-cut or choice of the mind.

Regards,
Anbu

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 6:53 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dear Anbuji,
>
> You said:
>
>  ///  I took the position that such is not a condition for release.  My
> stand was that for one who realizes that he suffers from thaapathrayam and
> seeks release through surrender to a Guru is liberated.  God Himself comes
> to him in the form of the Guru because He is KaruNaamoorthy who removes the
> thaapathrayam of the seeking jeeva.  ///
>
> Dear Anbuji,
>
> It is not as simple as you try to show it to be. Do you think all the gurus
> to be iberated? There may be gurus who are not liberated or may even be
> false gurus. Don't you think that one must be careful to check if one's guru
> is liberated? There has been umpteen cases where people changed their gurus.
> In some famous cases the one-time guru himself became the disciple of his
> disciple.
>
> --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fwd: A perspective -20
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:02 AM
>
> Dear Sunilji,
>
> In this thread I had posted earlier the following:
>
> "The Lord did tell Arjuna that he was not qualified for nivrthi dharma even
> though he taught it to him.  And He did explain why Arjuna was not
> qualified."
>
> *Arjuna's confusion was in following his own dharma as a kshathriya and at
> the end he tells the lord that his confusion has been dispelled.*  (See
> verse 18.73).
>
> It is true the saying is: "mana Eva manushyaanaam karaNaam
> bandhamOkshayO:"   In this thread the discussion was on the question
> whether
> the enlightenment of the mind is absolutely needed to realize one's own
> Self.  I took the position that such is not a condition for release.  My
> stand was that for one who realizes that he suffers from thaapathrayam and
> seeks release through surrender to a Guru is liberated.  God Himself comes
> to him in the form of the Guru because He is KaruNaamoorthy who removes the
> thaapathrayam of the seeking jeeva.
>
> What transpires between the Guru and the Sishya is one-on-one and cannot be
> generalized such as a paradigm of mind being the liberator  through several
> steps of enlightenment.  To me it is the the destruction of the mind much
> more than any enlightenment (though such is not forbidden), is the cause of
> it.   Who can deny that the root cause of evil is the mind?  Bhagavan
> Ramana
> was emphatic that the mind has to be killed.  The way to do it is to
> continuously push the mind to its source viz. the Aathma where it will rest
> in peace for ever.  His particular method of Vichara does not correspond to
> the standard held by the classical advaithins.  On his type of vichara
> Bhagavan Ramana said: "Aathma vichaaram, ayye, adhi sulabham."
>
> At the end of the day the Gnaani will have nothing to do with the BMI.
>
> Aum Sri GurubyO Namaha
> Anbu
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 6:54 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
> sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear riends,
> >
> > Lord Krishna settled this issue when, after the end of the discourse on
> the
> > Bhagavad Gita, He asked Arjuna as to what was in his (latter's) mind
> > regarding the decision to fight or not to. Thus the thought processes in
> the
> > mind alone prompt one to act.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
> >
> > --- On Fri, 2/26/10, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fwd: A perspective -20
> > To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > Date: Friday, February 26, 2010, 2:25 AM
> >
> >
> > [Sir, pl. note that for carrying on in this world the Jnani definitely
> > needs
> > the mind.  Supposing he is writing a book.  Will he not consult several
> > other books and select and reject material?  How is this possible without
> > a
> > mind?  How will he distinguish between what is required for him from what
> > is
> > not?  If he has to show compassion, care, etc. to others, how will this
> be
> > possible without the mind?  Bhagavan has taught in the Gita that these
> are
> > all faculties of the mind. If he  is an Acharya, a shortriya
> > brahmanishtha,
> > how can he teach various students of various levels unless he
> > distinguishes,
> > discriminates, etc.  It is a wrong notion that the jnani would have no
> > mind.
> >
> > According to the Vedanta, prarabdha karma is the one where the present
> > body-mind complex that has begun will run its destined course and only
> > then
> > cease.  How can we admit that only the physical body of the Jnani without
> > the mind will continue? ]
> >
> > praNAms
> > Hare Krishna
> >
> > What a great dictation on the  jnAni & his activities!!  It again clearly
> > shows how deeply we entangled in body, mind, intellect compartment...Just
> > we cannot think beyond it & we, with our conditioned mind set, donot
> ready
> > to discount these compartment even in brahma jnAni also!! what a pity!!
> > BTW, y'day Sri Subbu prabhuji has given 'kombu' example & explained how
> > 'kombu' also thrown after its usage...But what he is telling above is
> > completely different...If this 'kombu' ( in dAshtrAntika 'the mind') is
> > kept for the personal usage to rectify the problem of other 'kombu-s'
> then
> > this kombu beholder is NOT an ekamevAdviteeya brahmajnAni, he is just
> like
> > any other mortal with some special power of messages in his 'kombu' to
> > guide other 'kombu-s' in right direction.. thats it :-))  that means he
> is
> > not a jnAni, he is mere good preacher/ orator / writer with sound
> > philosophical background..
> >
> > But our scriptures say, brahmavit brahmaiva bhavati...does this brahma
> has
> > the individual notion?? does this brahma has individual mind??  It is
> only
> > we, the mundane mortals making the difference between jnAni & brahma ( I
> > am aware of the previous arguments on this line) to declare every jnAni
> is
> > brahman but brahman is NOT jnAni it is because, we are seeing the jnAni
> > with his nAma & rUpa and assuming that even jnAni also has the individual
> > mind & ego!!  To make this further to our comfort, we are ready to even
> > attribute 'avidyA lesha' to this jnAni till his physical body lasts...
> >
> > I dont want to drag this issue further, just I'd like to quote which Sri
> > Sunder prabhuji recently posted from ramaAna works :
> >
> > // quote //
> >
> > The jiva [the individual person], the world and God, all of these are
> > relative ideas. So long as there is the individual sense of 'I', these
> > three are also there.
> >
> > From this individual sense of 'I', from the mind, these three have
> > arisen. If you stop the mind, the three will not remain, but Brahman
> alone
> > will remain, as it remains and abides even now. We see things because of
> > an error. This misperception will be rectified by enquiring into the real
> > nature of this jiva. Even if the jiva enters Supermind, it will remain in
> > mind, but after surrendering the mind, there will be nothing left but
> > Brahman. Whether this world is real or unreal, consciousness or inert, a
> > place of happiness or a place
> > of misery, all these states arise in the state of ignorance. They are not
> > useful after realisation.
> >
> > The state of Atmanishta [being fixed in the Self], devoid of the
> > individual feeling of 'I', is the supreme state. In this state there is
> no
> > room for thinking of objects, nor for this feeling of individual being.
> > There is no doubt of any kind in this natural state of
> > being-consciousness-bliss.
> > // unquote //
> > If the jnAni cuts the vegetables at the kitchen, it is only in the view
> of
> > on lookers this 'kriya/action' is on!!  , it does not mean that jnAni is
> > identifying himself with a cook :-)) Likewise, if jnAni doing
> > brahmOpadesha to the ajnAni-s, it is only in the mind of onlookers who
> > wrongly thinking that jnAni has the individual body & mind to do this
> > preaching job...but as far as jnAni is concerned, he is ONE and
> > ALL...there is no distinction between jnAni & ajnAni in his samyak 'eka
> > rUpa darshana'.
> > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > bhaskar
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