[Advaita-l] Fwd: A perspective -20

[Anbu sivam2]

Dear Sri Subramanian,

I suppose I have said all that could be said of my conviction.  There is no
such thing as a rule book for advaitha.  At the end of the day one has to
understand it intuitively.  It would be the same if you imagine yourself to
be Ahalya and Sri Rama placed his holy paadham on your head.  I suppose a
bhakthimaan has a different concept than an exegete.

Actually according to Bhagavan Ramana Ahalya was a gnyaani even when she was
cursed.  This might surprise you and might tempt you to ask more questions.
We are merely treading into how jeevan mukthas behave in this world.  Our
AachaaryaaL referred to one such person in Sivaanandalahari namely Kannappa
Nayanaar who also placed his holy foot on Lord Siva.  If you are interested
you can read my 3 part commentary on that in the 63rd Sloka of
Sivaanandhalahari.

Subhamasthu,
Anbu

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 6:54 AM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>wrote:

> Dear Anbu ji,
>
> Pl. see my responses in [ ]
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Sri Subramanian,
> >
> > In the first post under this thread I wrote: " Advaitha teaches us that
> > giving up the intellect enables one to become one with this Reality."
> >
>
> [ This is not the teaching of traditional Advaita of Shankara's.]
>
> >
> >  *A gnyani is one with the reality and as such he is asangan.*
>
>
> [This is true]
>
> >
> > That would be the acquiring of aathmagnyaanam which can be obtained only
> by
> > the surrender to the Guru.  Such ability to surrender to a Guru comes out
> > of
> > sukrutham in many many births.
> >
>
> [There are no issues on this.]
>
> >
> > Then what happens between him and the Guru is one-on-one and does not
> > involve any set pattern and the upadesa may involve words or not even
> > words.  Bhagavan Ramana gave nayana dheeksha to many people.
>
>
> [If Bhagavan Krishna, Himself PUrNa, could have approved such methods of
> 'nayana deeksha' why did He not do that for Arjuna?  Why did He ask him to
> acquire Jnanam by 'tad viddhi praNipaatena pariprashnena sevayaa?' ]
>
>
> >  My examples from Ramayana and Bhagavatha are in these lines.
> >
>
> [I do not think Ahalya became a Jnani after the shaapa vimochanam.]
>
> >
> > Who can assert that the intellect was involved in all these?
> >
>
> [Since Ahalya's case is out of this, it could well be said in the case of
> Gopis that the intellect had become pari pakvam to intuit only the
> antaraatma dRk, sAkshi, to the exclusion of every thing else.  This is what
> Krishna advises in the 6th chapter: na kinchidapi chintayet.  The Gopi-s
> could be said to have had this ability.  Constant, one pointed, Krishna
> chintanam can take place only in the intellect.  So, where is the
> destruction or giving up of the intellect?  In the Panchadashi Vidyaranya
> gives the example of a woman constantly thinking of her paramour even when
> engaged in her daily routine.]
>
> >
> >
> > What I am saying is that it is preposterous to say that a gnyaani needs
> the
> > mind to carry on in this world.  He is there exhausting his praarabhdha
> > karma but he is asangan.  What he seems to be doing is a destiny that he
> > knows unlike the agnyaani but may not care for he is asangan.
> >
>
> [Sir, pl. note that for carrying on in this world the Jnani definitely
> needs
> the mind.  Supposing he is writing a book.  Will he not consult several
> other books and select and reject material?  How is this possible without a
> mind?  How will he distinguish between what is required for him from what
> is
> not?  If he has to show compassion, care, etc. to others, how will this be
> possible without the mind?  Bhagavan has taught in the Gita that these are
> all faculties of the mind. If he  is an Acharya, a shortriya brahmanishtha,
> how can he teach various students of various levels unless he
> distinguishes,
> discriminates, etc.  It is a wrong notion that the jnani would have no
> mind.
>
> According to the Vedanta, prarabdha karma is the one where the present
> body-mind complex that has begun will run its destined course and only then
> cease.  How can we admit that only the physical body of the Jnani without
> the mind will continue? ]
>
> >
> >
> > Why so?  Because the world is a product of karma and Easwara as
> Karmaphala
> > Dhaatha has to ensure that the phala that he has dispensed is not
> overcome
> > by any means.  He ensures this by being the space, time and causality and
> > the jeeva too!
> >
>
> [ When He is the jeeva, will He be just the jiva's body and not the  mind,
> intellect, ahankara also?  If he is not always in samadhi, he will have to
> interact with the world.  If someone calls him by name, how will he respond
> if he has no mind, ahankara? The notion of 'mind is lost with
> self-realization' is a concept that is not acceptable to Vedanta.]
>
>
> > Now tell me how can anyone with only a useless weapon as an
> > intellect can challenge his will?
>
>
> [The intellect is required to go along with the prarabdha even if not for
> challenging Iswara's will.  Let me also tell you that there are some videos
> available on the Paramacharya of Kanchi.  One can see, over the years, the
> Acharya had to be prompted by those around Him for suitable words, names,
> dates, etc.  This was not required when He was young in His thirties and
> forties. I have seen those videos too.  That shows that the intellect takes
> the beating of ageing. This is the natural course of Prakriti to which even
> a jnani is subject. Of course it is needless to say that his AtmajnAnam
> will
> not be affected by these.  The Panchadashi Chapter 2 last few shlokas are
> specifically on this. ]
>
> Best regards,
> subbu
>
>