[Advaita-l] Fw: Re: APerspective 17-2

[Sunil Bhattacharjya]

Anbuji,
I am sure the learned members know how Astavakra's father goofed up the recitation of the Vedic hymns and that Astavakra was disturbed though he was still in his mother's womb and we know what eventually happened.  But that does not necessarily mean that his father's decision to send Astavakra to a second guru was wrong.
I am not against devotion to one's guru. I also believe that one can progress through the guidance of one's guru. Guru removes the darkness but Lord Krishna may send different gurus to us at different times. When an advaitic guru came to Ramakrishna Paramhansa he was not receptive. Then he asked Mother Kali as to what should be done and the latter replied that she had indeed brought the Advaitic guru to Ramakrishna so that he takes to the Advaitic path.
Regards,


--- On Sun, 2/7/10, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: Re: APerspective 17-2
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 5:26 AM

OK, Sunilji, please tell everyone as to why Ashtavakra was born Ashtavakra.
That will tell everyone a lot about his father.

Anyway Lord Krishna has to come to you as your Guru in person (or whatever
form or no form) of which you must be certain that it is Lord Krishna.  When
that happens you will know no one else except him.  At that time you are no
more you and you will be liberated.  And please remember what I have said
before viz. a person seemingly goes in search of a Guru who is already
destined for him.

Otherwise Lord Krishna will be a folk hero as he is described.

Regards,

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 4:40 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Anbuji,
> When Astavakra completed his education / training in Gurukul his father
> tested his knowledge and sent him to a second guru for his final lessons.
> How do you reconcile that. I feel when you have Lord Krishna as the Guru you
> will not have any such problem.
> Vande Krishnam Jagadgurum
> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
>
> --- On Sat, 2/6/10, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: Re: APerspective 17-2
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 10:00 AM
>
> Sunilji,
>
> Your question has two parts: Let me deal with the first part first.
>
> 1) You said:  "Earlier you made a statement as follows:"How many
> interpretations are there on Bhagavad Geeta from Dwaithic view to advaithic
> view an all in between?"
>
> The answer for this is as follows:
>
> i) You asked me if Bhagavat Geetha can be taken as Guru Vaakya.
>
> ii) If one just reads the text in order to be taught what Bhagavan Krishna
> was saying my answer was that one would end up understanding it the way he
> likes it.  That is the nature of the mind.  That is why I said.  "Without
> Guru a person who is ignorant will be his own Guru.  In other words, it is
> blind leading the blind.  This is why no liberation is possible without a
> Guru."
>
> iii) If one were to understand from the commentaries written by others I
> had
> said that there are numerous commentaries of which you will end up making
> the choice.  Here again your mind plays a role that will have its own bias
> in making the choice, besides the fact that a choice is by its very nature
> an excusion of something and not all embracing.
>
> iv) This reinforces my contention that a person surrenders to a Guru to get
> liberated.
>
> 2) The second part of your question is on my contention "We in our
> ignorance
> continue to  value whether such teaching is dwaitha or advaitha, Is it
> necessary?"  You found that to be contradictory to my earlier statement.
>
> The following is my statement:
>
> "As I said before the driving force is one's realization is that he suffers
> from thaapathrayam.  If it is not for this realization (that he suffers) he
> would be happy in this world and have nothing to seek to get out of it.
>
> That, namely his sense of suffering from the thaapathrayam, takes him to a
> Guru. Who is one's Guru is pre-destined by one's poorva sat karma.  What
> you
> and I consider as dvaita or advaita don't matter in the Guru-sishya
> relation
> because the sishya has surrendered himself.
>
> In Sivaanandalahari AachaaryaaL keeps talking of his surrender to
> ParamEswara showing when one surrenders there is no two, otherwise there is
> no surrender.  What is taught to each individual lifts him from samsaara
> and
> releases him from thaapathraya.  We in our ignorance continue to value
> whether such teaching is dwaitha or advaitha.  Is it necessary?"
>
> I don't think there is any contradiction here.
>
> Guru-sishya relationship cannot be universalized.  It is an apparent
> relationship between two individual where one (the sishya) has surrendered
> to the Guru.  When one surrenders then the individuality is gone.  Thus
> irrespective of the appearance there is one only.  (Remember the
> Upanishadic
> statement that the gold remains gold irrespective of its forms?) In this
> surrender the Guru removes the ignorance of the sishya upon which there is
> no difference between the Guru and the sishya.  The teaching is personal in
> the sense that teaching has removed the person's thaapathrayam.  You and I
> can look at the this unique teaching and make our own guess as to whether
> it
> is dwaitha or advaitha.  Irrespective of what we talk of this teaching the
> sishya has liberated himself.  That is the important part.  You cannot say
> "No, he was not liberated."
>
> So is my contention that the surrender to the Guru is the first and the
> last
> and the only step to liberate oneself!
>
> GURUR BRAHMA, GURUR VISHNO GURUR DEVO MAHESWARA:
> GURU SAAKSHAATH PARABRAHMA THASMAI SRI GURAVE NAMA:
>
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
> sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Anbuji.
> > Earlier you made a statement as follows:
> > /////// How many interpretations are there on Bhagavad Geeta from
> Dwaithic
> > view to advaithic view an all in between? /////
> > Then you went on to give the following statement in the last mail:
> > ////// We in our ignorance continue to  value whether such teaching is
> > dwaitha or advaitha, Is it necessary? ///////
> > Do you think that these two statements do not agree with each other ?
> > Regards,
> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > :
> > --- On Thu, 2/4/10, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] APerspective 17-2
> > To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 4:41 AM
> >
> > Sunilji,
> >
> > Without Guru a person who is ignorant will be his own Guru.  In other
> > words,
> > it is blind leading the blind.  This is why no liberation is possible
> > without a Guru.
> >
> > As I said before the driving force is one's realization is that he
> suffers
> > from thaapathrayam.  If it is not for this realization he would be happy
> in
> > this world and have nothing to seek to get out of it.
> >
> > That, namely his sense of suffering from the thaapathrayam, takes him to
> a
> > Guru. *Who is one's Guru is pre-destined by one's poorva sat karma.*
> What
> > you and I consider as dvaita or
> >  advaita don't matter in the Guru-sishya
> > relation because the sishya has surrendered himself.
> >
> > In Sivaanandalahari AachaaryaaL keeps talking of his surrender to
> > ParamEswara showing when one surrenders there is no two, otherwise there
> is
> > no surrender.  What is taught to *each individual *lifts him from
> samsaara
> > and releases him from thaapathraya.  We in our ignorance continue to
> value
> > whether such teaching is dwaitha or advaitha.  Is it necessary?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Anbu
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:16 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
> > sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Anbuji,
> > >
> > > Don't you agree that the personal guru can also be Dvaitavadi or
> > > Advatavadi? So the goal may be different depending on whether the
> > Personal
> > > Guru is Dvaitavadi or
> >  Advaitavadi.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Sunil K. Bhattachjarjya
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 2/3/10, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] APerspective 17-2
> > > To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > > Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 9:15 AM
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Sunilji,
> > >
> > > How many interpretations are there on Bhagavad Geetha from dwaithic
> view
> > to
> > > advaithic view and all in-between?
> > >
> > > A book is inert though it would help to
> >  seek.  But liberation is only
> > > through the Chaithanyam,  the personal Guru.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Anbu
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
> > > sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear Anbuji,
> > > > What about considering the Bhagavad Gita as the Guruvakya and Lord
> > > Krishna
> > > > as the Guru.
> > > > Vande Krishnam Jagadgurum
> > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
> > > > --- On Wed, 2/3/10, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l]
> >  APerspective 17-2
> > > > To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> > > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > > > Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 1:27 AM
> > > >
> > > > Sunilji,
> > > >
> > > > In addition to what I have said above, I think it is relevant to
> bring
> > in
> > > > the mutual superimposition (adhyaasa) that I have mentioned in my
> reply
> > > to
> > > > Bhaskarji.
> > > >
> > > > The relation between the Aathman and the kosas is adhyaasa.  (If you
> > want
> > > > me
> > > > to explain on this I will do that.)
> > > >
> > > > *This adhyaasa can be broken only by Guru Vaakya not by any
> > self-analysis
> > > > however correct it may be.*
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps these self-analysis and public discussion might induce one
> >  to
> > > > surrender to a Guru.  That is the hope.
> > > >
> > > > *Surrender is the key to liberation.*
> > > >
> > > > Sri GurubyO Namaha.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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