[Advaita-l] Fw: Re: APerspective 17-2

[Sunil Bhattacharjya]

Anbuji,
When Astavakra completed his education / training in Gurukul his father tested his knowledge and sent him to a second guru for his final lessons. How do you reconcile that. I feel when you have Lord Krishna as the Guru you will not have any such problem.
Vande Krishnam Jagadgurum
Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Sat, 2/6/10, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: Re: APerspective 17-2
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 10:00 AM

Sunilji,

Your question has two parts: Let me deal with the first part first.

1) You said:  "Earlier you made a statement as follows:"How many
interpretations are there on Bhagavad Geeta from Dwaithic view to advaithic
view an all in between?"

The answer for this is as follows:

i) You asked me if Bhagavat Geetha can be taken as Guru Vaakya.

ii) If one just reads the text in order to be taught what Bhagavan Krishna
was saying my answer was that one would end up understanding it the way he
likes it.  That is the nature of the mind.  That is why I said.  "Without
Guru a person who is ignorant will be his own Guru.  In other words, it is
blind leading the blind.  This is why no liberation is possible without a
Guru."

iii) If one were to understand from the commentaries written by others I had
said that there are numerous commentaries of which you will end up making
the choice.  Here again your mind plays a role that will have its own bias
in making the choice, besides the fact that a choice is by its very nature
an excusion of something and not all embracing.

iv) This reinforces my contention that a person surrenders to a Guru to get
liberated.

2) The second part of your question is on my contention "We in our ignorance
continue to  value whether such teaching is dwaitha or advaitha, Is it
necessary?"  You found that to be contradictory to my earlier statement.

The following is my statement:

"As I said before the driving force is one's realization is that he suffers
from thaapathrayam.  If it is not for this realization (that he suffers) he
would be happy in this world and have nothing to seek to get out of it.

That, namely his sense of suffering from the thaapathrayam, takes him to a
Guru. Who is one's Guru is pre-destined by one's poorva sat karma.  What you
and I consider as dvaita or advaita don't matter in the Guru-sishya relation
because the sishya has surrendered himself.

In Sivaanandalahari AachaaryaaL keeps talking of his surrender to
ParamEswara showing when one surrenders there is no two, otherwise there is
no surrender.  What is taught to each individual lifts him from samsaara and
releases him from thaapathraya.  We in our ignorance continue to value
whether such teaching is dwaitha or advaitha.  Is it necessary?"

I don't think there is any contradiction here.

Guru-sishya relationship cannot be universalized.  It is an apparent
relationship between two individual where one (the sishya) has surrendered
to the Guru.  When one surrenders then the individuality is gone.  Thus
irrespective of the appearance there is one only.  (Remember the Upanishadic
statement that the gold remains gold irrespective of its forms?) In this
surrender the Guru removes the ignorance of the sishya upon which there is
no difference between the Guru and the sishya.  The teaching is personal in
the sense that teaching has removed the person's thaapathrayam.  You and I
can look at the this unique teaching and make our own guess as to whether it
is dwaitha or advaitha.  Irrespective of what we talk of this teaching the
sishya has liberated himself.  That is the important part.  You cannot say
"No, he was not liberated."

So is my contention that the surrender to the Guru is the first and the last
and the only step to liberate oneself!

GURUR BRAHMA, GURUR VISHNO GURUR DEVO MAHESWARA:
GURU SAAKSHAATH PARABRAHMA THASMAI SRI GURAVE NAMA:

On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> Anbuji.
> Earlier you made a statement as follows:
> /////// How many interpretations are there on Bhagavad Geeta from Dwaithic
> view to advaithic view an all in between? /////
> Then you went on to give the following statement in the last mail:
> ////// We in our ignorance continue to  value whether such teaching is
> dwaitha or advaitha, Is it necessary? ///////
> Do you think that these two statements do not agree with each other ?
> Regards,
> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
>
>
>
>
>
> :
> --- On Thu, 2/4/10, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] APerspective 17-2
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 4:41 AM
>
> Sunilji,
>
> Without Guru a person who is ignorant will be his own Guru.  In other
> words,
> it is blind leading the blind.  This is why no liberation is possible
> without a Guru.
>
> As I said before the driving force is one's realization is that he suffers
> from thaapathrayam.  If it is not for this realization he would be happy in
> this world and have nothing to seek to get out of it.
>
> That, namely his sense of suffering from the thaapathrayam, takes him to a
> Guru. *Who is one's Guru is pre-destined by one's poorva sat karma.*  What
> you and I consider as dvaita or
>  advaita don't matter in the Guru-sishya
> relation because the sishya has surrendered himself.
>
> In Sivaanandalahari AachaaryaaL keeps talking of his surrender to
> ParamEswara showing when one surrenders there is no two, otherwise there is
> no surrender.  What is taught to *each individual *lifts him from samsaara
> and releases him from thaapathraya.  We in our ignorance continue to value
> whether such teaching is dwaitha or advaitha.  Is it necessary?
>
> Regards,
> Anbu
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:16 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
> sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Anbuji,
> >
> > Don't you agree that the personal guru can also be Dvaitavadi or
> > Advatavadi? So the goal may be different depending on whether the
> Personal
> > Guru is Dvaitavadi or
>  Advaitavadi.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Sunil K. Bhattachjarjya
> >
> > --- On Wed, 2/3/10, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] APerspective 17-2
> > To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 9:15 AM
> >
> >
> > Dear Sunilji,
> >
> > How many interpretations are there on Bhagavad Geetha from dwaithic view
> to
> > advaithic view and all in-between?
> >
> > A book is inert though it would help to
>  seek.  But liberation is only
> > through the Chaithanyam,  the personal Guru.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Anbu
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
> > sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Anbuji,
> > > What about considering the Bhagavad Gita as the Guruvakya and Lord
> > Krishna
> > > as the Guru.
> > > Vande Krishnam Jagadgurum
> > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
> > > --- On Wed, 2/3/10, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l]
>  APerspective 17-2
> > > To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > > Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 1:27 AM
> > >
> > > Sunilji,
> > >
> > > In addition to what I have said above, I think it is relevant to bring
> in
> > > the mutual superimposition (adhyaasa) that I have mentioned in my reply
> > to
> > > Bhaskarji.
> > >
> > > The relation between the Aathman and the kosas is adhyaasa.  (If you
> want
> > > me
> > > to explain on this I will do that.)
> > >
> > > *This adhyaasa can be broken only by Guru Vaakya not by any
> self-analysis
> > > however correct it may be.*
> > >
> > > Perhaps these self-analysis and public discussion might induce one
>  to
> > > surrender to a Guru.  That is the hope.
> > >
> > > *Surrender is the key to liberation.*
> > >
> > > Sri GurubyO Namaha.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
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