[Advaita-l] APerspective 17-2

[Anbu sivam2]

Sunilji,

In addition to what I have said above, I think it is relevant to bring in
the mutual superimposition (adhyaasa) that I have mentioned in my reply to
Bhaskarji.

The relation between the Aathman and the kosas is adhyaasa.  (If you want me
to explain on this I will do that.)

*This adhyaasa can be broken only by Guru Vaakya not by any self-analysis
however correct it may be.*

Perhaps these self-analysis and public discussion might induce one to
surrender to a Guru.  That is the hope.

*Surrender is the key to liberation.*

Sri GurubyO Namaha.

Regards,

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Sunilji,
>
> If there were no rays of the sun then the clouds cannot be formed so there
> can be no identity for the cloud apart from the sun yet the clouds cover the
> sun.  Likewise the smoke originates from the fire and therefore it cannot
> have a different identity from the fire yet it covers the fire.  Likewise
> all the kosas though spoken of as covering the aathman as sword and its
> sheath, these kosas have no existence different and apart (such as the sword
> and the sheath) from the aathman.
>
> Therefore the kosas are allegorical rather than material.
>
> We thus know of the manas and buddhi and chittha and ahamkara but cannot
> point them out to anyone.
>
> So in waking state when the buddhi is alive the mind is under control of
> the buddhi (unlike during dream time when the buddhi is absent) except under
> the power of the vaasanaas the mind overpowers the buddhi during the waking
> time.
>
> If everyone has no buddhi then how would the waking state be different from
> the dream state?
>
> (I am aware that you and I talked of the existence or otherwise of the
> buddhi in dream time before and we differed on this account.)
>
> Thus in waking time buddhi tries to rule while the manas, aided by the
> vaasanaas, tries to overpower the buddhi.
>
> So when buddhi is predominant then you can say that the mind has sunk into
> the buddhi ( in your parlance the manomaya kosa is sunk into vignanamaya
> kosa).  When the sleep overtakes with both manas and buddhi absent then your
> allusion that manomayakosa and vignanamaya kosa has sunk into aanandamaya
> kosa can be a correct description.
>
> Regards,
> Anbu
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
> sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Anbuji,
>>
>> Does not the Katha Upanisahad tell us that we have to still the  mind (or
>> call it dissolve the Manomaya kosha) in the Jnanatmana (or the Vijnanamaya
>> kosha or the Buddhi), which in turn is to be dissolved in Mahat (the
>> Ananadamaya kosha)? Don't you think that Lord Yama knew his subject well?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
>>
>> --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] APerspective 17-2
>> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 3:09 AM
>>
>>
>> Dear Sadanandaji,
>>
>> Your line of arguments have been quite logical.  I am not disagreeing.
>>
>> The mind is always there.  As Ramana says, one has to sink it into aathman
>> for it to lose its virulence.  To use his own words, the mind then becomes
>> a
>> burnt rope that cannot tie.
>>
>> Many came to him, and very many out of them were non-intellectuals, even
>> animals and birds, and they all easily attained Moksha and perhaps the
>> world
>> never even knew of them except a few.  However it were the giants of
>> intellects including Ganapathi Muni who brought Ramana to light of the
>> world.  But they all had so much of sankalpas and they were happy with
>> their
>> intellectual delights.  Ramana said that Naayana would be born again.
>>
>> How useless is the intellect!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Anbesviam
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 5:44 AM, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 6:11 AM, Kuntimaddi Sadananda <
>> > ksadananda108 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Dear Sadanandaji,
>> >> >
>> >> > PraNaams.
>> >> >
>> >> > Quote: "Falsification is complete only when the underlying truth
>> behind
>> >> > both
>> >> > knower and the known is recognized."
>> >> >
>> >> > Logically correct but practically never feasible for only one exists
>> in
>> >> > time
>> >> > (or out of it) - not both!
>> >> >
>> >> > You need *TWO* to say that one is real and the other is false.  The
>> >> > intellect will never apprehend the Reality, can it?
>> >> >
>> >> > shree Anbuji - PraNAms
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> What was discussed in the original post and the pervious ones as well
>> is
>> >> exactly what you have stated. I request the post be read again, perhaps
>> >> again by those who are really want to know.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Mind (intellect) is needed to say that I am not the intellect. Hence
>> the
>> >> declaration quoted earlier..manaeva.manushyaanaam ..from amRitabindu
>> Up.
>> >> The
>> >> all pervading reality need not have to realize and the inert intellect
>> >> cannot realize. Realization is re-cognition that I am the existence
>> >> consciousness that I am, currently identifying with the Intellect,
>> >> understand that I am not the intellect, but that which is substantive
>> of
>> >> both the subject and the object vRittis or thoughts that arise in the
>> >> intellect. This has to be done with the intellect only. With the
>> intellect
>> >> alone one can apprehend the truth. Hence the statement – tat
>> vigijnaasasva
>> >> or  brahma jignaasaa etc, where Brahman or atman has to be inquired,
>> with
>> >> the only available instrument - the intellect only.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Realization is to reject the superficial names and forms of the
>> contents
>> >> of
>> >> the vRitti that arise in the intellect and shifting attention to the
>> sat
>> >> and
>> >> chit that is substantive for both the subject and the object. This
>> shift
>> >> has
>> >> to be by the intellect - that is what viveka means - nitya anitya vastu
>> >> viveka - where intelligently shift ones attention for that which is
>> >> permanent and eternal substantive truth from the superficial fleeting
>> >> names
>> >> and forms or attributive contents of the vRittis or thoughts.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> It is like I need the mirror and looking at the image in the mirror I
>> >> recognize that I am not the image but the original because of which the
>> >> image is there. without the mirror I cannot see my face. Using the
>> iamge
>> >> in
>> >> the mirror I recognzie the orginal. Using the reflected consciousness
>> in
>> >> the
>> >> intellect I recognize that I am the original consciousness. Using what?
>> -
>> >> The intellect only. That is what viveka means - original is eternal and
>> >> permanent while the names and forms keep changing as attributive
>> content
>> >> of
>> >> the vRittis. Intellect acts both as the mirror as well as instrument
>> for
>> >> re-cognition for realization that I am not instrument of cognition,
>> i.e.
>> >> intellect. This has been extensively discussed in the last and previous
>> >> posts. This is the subtlest part and that is why chitta suddhi is
>> >> important
>> >> for me to detach myself from the attributive content of the vRittis to
>> >> shift
>> >> my attention to the ever present substantive. I have to use the
>> intellect
>> >> to
>> >> say that I am not the intellect. This is also one of the reasons why I
>> >> need
>> >> a sampradaaya teacher for Vedanta to explain this subtlety correctly.
>> >> Shraddhaa is the prerequisite. With this I remain.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hope this helps
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> With praNAms to all
>> >>
>> >> Hari Om!
>> >> Sadananda
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