[Advaita-l] A question on Mayavada

[srirudra at vsnl.com]

Dear Members
While reading the difference between what is knowledge and what is wisdom 
Jaldharji has given the  example of the sunset as seen by a layman and an 
astronomer and said the perspective of each of them makes the difference.I 
will add that knowledge is shareable but jnanam is not.It is a subjective 
factor.R.Krishnamoorthy.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sunil Bhattacharjya" <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" 
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Question on Mayavada


Dear Jaldharji,

Well put. May I add that In Mahayana when one gets out of the clutch of 
Prakriti (ieone sheds / leaves the body of the five skandhas ) one gets the 
state of Zero-Identity or Shunyata, where there is no individual identity 
and there is only awareness and no separateness. This means that though the 
individual identity is lost, a non-separate awareness remains. Shall I be 
wrong if I say that many see there some similarity between the Advaita and 
Buddhism.

Regards,

Sunil K.Bhattacharjya

--- On Mon, 12/6/10, Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com> wrote:

From: Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Question on Mayavada
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" 
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Monday, December 6, 2010, 9:53 PM

On Sun, 21 Nov 2010, Rajaram Venkataramani wrote:

> Thanks for the elaborate responses to my question. It is difficult to
> respond to them individually. The reponsed fall in to three categories:
>
>
> 1. The padma purana verses are bogus. I am okay to accept it if one
> is able to prove interpolation. I have heard better arguments from outside
> this forum to support this but none scholarly enough. The strongest one is
> that there are four recensions of Padma Purana andthe said verses appear
> only in the Bengali edition. But when I enquired I realized that such a
> statement was not based on evidence but anti-gaudiya sentiment.

It's also not entirely true. The Nirnaya Sagara edition of the Padma Purana 
which was published from Mumbai, does include those shlokas. However atleast 
in the copy I have, there is no critical apparatus so

> None of the
> members on this forum made that argument but tried to prove intterpolation
> on two counts. One, the verse shows misunderstanding of advaitam. But that
> is not the case because the description of total renunciation, jIva brahma
> aikyam etc. are correct.

Unfortunately, as we have seen in the recent election season here in the US, 
it is possible to selectively quote the truth and twist the meaning. One 
would hope Veda Vyasa held himself up to a higher standard than a 
politician.

This is the misunderstanding. Advaita Vedanta does not teach the 
renunciation of karma for all and sundry (surely you must have seen the many 
posts in this list about karmakanda?) rather it says karma has an effect 
only for the person who maintains I-consciousness. As a jnani no longer has 
this, karma is pointless for him but he can still advocate it for those who 
still have ahamkara. The Buddhists on the other hand simply do not believe 
the shastras have any effect. Not the same thing at all.

Similiarly, Advaita Vedanta teaches that what is called Jiva and Brahman are 
equivalent. Buddhism does not admit either exists at all. Totally different.

By the time the Madhvas and Gaudiyas flourished, Buddhism was dead in India. 
Their only knowledge of it was second-hand and while calling Advaita Vedanta 
pracchanna bauddha might have made sense to them, we who are better informed 
should not make that mistake.


> Sri Jaladhar Vyas mentioned that jnana is not a subtractive process. If it
> is a view supported by what Sankara says, then it is an argument that
> Advaitam is not Mayavada. But the rest of the group seems to believe that
> Brahman is distinct from Ishwara, Jiva and Jagat, which are results of 
> Maya.
> On realizing Brahman, none of these exist.

...in the way they were formerly conceived. This is the part you are not 
getting. Jnana is not just a matter of extra knowledge but a fundamental 
shift in perspective. Many people will, for example, go to the ocean to 
watch the beautiful sunset over the waters. Now if you learn a little bit of 
astronomy, you know the sun does not actually set; in fact it is the earth 
which is orbitting the sun despite the contradiction of knowledge we receive 
from the senses. Can the astronomer not enjoy the sunset? Of course he can 
because the phenomenon remains the same, only the perspective of the 
observer, the interpretation he gives to that phenomenon has changed. This 
is what jnana is albeit on a grander scale.


-- Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
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