[Advaita-l] Brahmins and Vaishnavas

[S Jayanarayanan]

--- On Fri, 7/30/10, S Jayanarayanan <sjayana at yahoo.com> wrote:

> --- On Thu, 7/29/10, Venkatesh Murthy
> <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > This website has questioned Brahmanas
> > today. Have they become Sudras?
> > http://gosai.com/writings/the-ontological-position-of-the-vaishnava-over-the-brahmana
> > 
> 
> I admire the frank and scholarly discussions in that site.
> But I believe the conclusion is misplaced: "The followers of
> Mahaprabhu hailed from all walks of life, thus confirming
> that the transcendental designation of 'Vaisnava' is above
> the social laws of varnasrama."
> 
> How then can one explain the following verse from the
> Vishnu Purana (Book 3, Chapter 8):
> 
> varNAshramAchAravatA purushheNa paraH pumaan.h .
> vishhNuraaraadhyate panthaa naanyat.h tattoshhakaaraNam.h ..
> 
> "The supreme Vishnu is propitiated by a man who observes
> the institutions of caste, order, and purificatory
> practices: no other path is the way to please him."
> 

ISKCON is well aware of this verse, as evidenced by Prabhupada quoting it during his talk on Varnasrama. This is a huge problem in ISKCON - their claim that they are "Vaishnavas who run afoul of Varnasrama" is ridiculous, to say the least. But they don't stop there, for they also turn around and claim that they are indeed following Varnasrama, but not according to birth! The whole situation is a confused mess with no understanding of Varnasrama Dharma or being a Vaishnava!

http://www.prabhupada.org/krishna/?m=200912&paged=2

"Hari-sauri: So in Mayapura here now we have that situation, that so many...
Prabhupada: Everywhere, wherever, Mayapura or anywhere. Question is that here it is clearly said, sve sve karmany abhiratah. Brahmana has his duty, kshatriya has his duty, vaishya has his duty, shudra has his duty. And if he performs his duty nicely, then he also becomes perfect. So why artificially he should be called a brahmana? Let them do, according to shastra, the work of shudra, or vaishya. He’ll get the perfect. Perfection is not checked. But why artificially he should be made a brahmana or he should be made a sannyasi and fall down and become a ludicrous? That is the point. Better let him live in his position and become perfect. That’s good. That looks very nice. And that is. That is possible. Varnashrama charavata purushena parah puman vishnur aradhyate [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. [From Parashara Muni in Vishnu Purana (3.8.9): “The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Vishnu, is worshiped by the proper execution of prescribed duties in the system
 of varna and ashrama. ..” You work as a perfect brahmana or a perfect kshatriya, perfect shudra; you get perfection. The perfection is available in your natural life. Why should artificially you become unnatural and falldown"

> http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/vp/vp082.htm
> 
> > A is a Brahmin settled in USA. He has crossed ocean
> and he
> > is working
> > for foreigners. Sudra Vrutti.
> > B is white American come to India and doing
> devotional
> > service in Iskcon temple.
> > C is Indian non dvija doing devotional service in
> Iskcon
> > temple.
> > 
> > How is A better than B and C? Iskcon says B and C are
> > converted to
> > Brahmanas but  A converted to Sudra.
> > 
> > Any counter arguments from learned members ?
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > -Venkatesh
>