[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Veda-s & its apaurusheyatva

[Sunil Bhattacharjya]

Dear Padmanabhanji,

Namaste,

Kindly be a bit tolerant, even if you consider thie digressions as indiscreetions. There is no attempt to smother the discussions on advaita. Are there no beliefs and rituals in the natural Sanatana dharma? To my mind an advaitin transcends the beliefs and rituals by realising the ultimate truth,  after knowing which nothing remains to be known. Advaitin does not necessarily have to ignore the beliefs and rituals. He has only to know what is what. Lord Krishna performed the pitrikarma on a particular amavashya around the time of the Mahabharata war and that did not make him an ignorant person. Even a Jivanmukta like Adi Sankaracharya did cremate his mother and prayed to Lord Vishnu for the deliverence of his mother and that ritual was neither against the Sanatana dharma nor against the Advaitavada. Adi Sankaracharya also criticised the views of Jainism as well as the misinterprtetations of Lord Buddha's teachings by the followers of the Yogacara
 doctrine. That religious discussion with his opponents was not considered advaitic but was considered necessary. Correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,

Sunil K. BHattacharjya

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ananth Padmanabhan <padmanabhan_ananth at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Ananth Padmanabhan <padmanabhan_ananth at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] Veda-s & its apaurusheyatva
To: "advaitha Vedaanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 8:11 AM


Dear All

 

Discussions on Advaitic philosophy are good, however when the discussions digress to specifities about religion, beliefs and rituals, we get in to the 'maya syndrome' of tail wagging the dog. It makes many seekers  and even ordinary  people like me feel very uncomfortable. Sanatana Dharma has to be natural and let us strive to atleast follow it in our email discussions with no reference to creed, caste , religion or any meaningless identifications.

 

Namaskar in Easwarathwam

Padmanabhan

 

  
 
> Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 16:11:23 -0700
> From: sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] Veda-s & its apaurusheyatva
> 
> Dear Michaelji,
>  
> Yes, we should speak in terms of the Sanatana dharma, as the whole humanity inherits it.
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
> 
> --- On Sat, 9/5/09, Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] Veda-s & its apaurusheyatva
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Saturday, September 5, 2009, 7:40 AM
> 
> 
> Dear Sunilji,
> 
> Perhaps I am the wrong person to be seen as a 'representative' of anything.
> As a child, I knew that the Lord was my best friend and knew more about me
> than I knew myself; I grew up with the mystics, Christian, Sufi, Hindu, who
> lived in the universal and to whom rebirth was not an issue; and I have
> spent my adult life in the company of those whose first concern is truth and
> who seek wisdom. Therefore we believe that Sanatana Dharma means what it
> says, and doesn't come with a label 'Hindus only' or 'check the reading-list
> before applying'.. We believe that Sanatana Dharma is to be recognised, and
> lived.
> 
> So we come to Hinduism open-minded. We are very fortunate in the
> practicality of our simple-mindedness. Don't label us. For we do not label
> you.
> 
> Michael
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Sunil
> Bhattacharjya
> Sent: 05 September 2009 14:11
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] Veda-s & its apaurusheyatva
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Michaelji,
>  
> One should not forget there is a  great difference between Hinduism
> (including its daughter religions such as Buddhism, Jainism) and the Semitic
> religions in that the former believes in rebirth and the latter not. Thus
> moving from one to the other means a paradigm shift.  
>  
> Secondly there is no upper limit of knowledge in Hinduisn in the sense that
> nothing comes in way of the  the seeker in his pursuit for the ultimate
> knowledge.  Sir Abdullah Suhrawardy quoted a Hadith in the book "The sayings
> of Muhammad", according to which the prophet said that he got two types of
> knowledge from God and that he could give his followers only one type of
> knowledge as they would not be able to assimilate the other type (of
> knowledge.  The prophet in his best judgement might have found it that way.
> Why then compare the religions? The bhakti to the Lord alone is emphasised
> there.
>  
> Thirdly  Bhakti's prominance does not appear in Advaita? Bhakti is very nice
> and wonderful but Advaita has some reservation for Bhakti. Remember Adi
> Sankaracharya said "Bhaktyarthakalpitam Dvaitam Advaitadapi Sundaram".
> Bhakti without Jnana is not the Advaita's cup of tea.
>  
> Then in the Bhagavad Gita the Lord said about Lokasangraha. The knowledge of
> the Vedas is for all. One who cannot read the Vedas can have the Puranas and
> the epics to get the taste of the Vedic knowledge. If any non-Hindu likes to
> come to Hinduism due to that person's genuine interest then that
> person should be welcome to do so. Vishwamitra was born as a Kshatriya but
> he strived hard to become a Brahman and he did succeed. One thing a person
> has to take care is that  in that process the person should not shirk off
> the responsibilities incumbent on him by birth or his past karma.
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
>  
>  
> 
> --- On Sat, 9/5/09, Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] Veda-s & its apaurusheyatva
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Saturday, September 5, 2009, 4:08 AM
> 
> 
> Shri Shyam ji
> 
> I've been reading again your fine posting, for which thanks.
> 
> I'd just like to 'clean up' by saying that Hinduism, because of its
> intertwined theology, religion,  spiritual advice, and wisdom, is going to
> attract -- as it has since the 18th century at least -- thinkers from other
> nations and faiths for its jnana aspects; rather than the recent
> well-intentioned pseudo-bhaktis. And that seems to me to be, in view of
> Sanatana Dharma, an extremely auspicious and propitious situation.
> 
> Michael
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Shyam
> Sent: 04 September 2009 16:57
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] Veda-s & its apaurusheyatva
> 
> 
> 
> Pranams Shri Michael-ji and others,
> I suspect that some people may be reading into what Shri Pravin-ji has so
> consistently articulated, an approach that is based on chauvinism or
> ethnocentricity. I would like to submit that in fact when examined it is the
> exact opposite.
> 
> This thread was concerned primarily with the status of the Vedas as
> apaurusheya and what that term signified.
> 
> Now those not in the Vedic fold have their own scriptures to adhere to. It
> is wrong to use the term Veda for that. It is also unnecessary. Every belief
> system has internal validity for its followers. There is no need to dilute,
> or waterdown, or in anyways liberalize the doctrines of the Vedic path, in
> order that may make it more palatable to members of other faiths.
> 
> When we attempt to do this we actually undermine the validity of those
> faiths as well. Why should we look at the Bible or the Quran as Veda? Are
> the Abrahamic faiths in need of "Vedic" validation in order for them to be
> considered Holy? There is wisdom in every religious scripture, and every
> religion has the tools to spiritually cater to the particular temparament
> and mindset of its followers.
> 
> All this talk of allowing or encouraging "conversion" is silly, as was
> pointed out by His Holiness Chandrashekhara Bharati "since he was born in a
> particular faith, it was best suited for him to pursue his spiritual
> advances in that faith" - similar messages have been similarly articulated
> by His Holiness the Sage of Kanchi as well.
> 
> The reason can be found in Lord Krishna's words "- Better is one's own
> dharma than another's"...shreyah sva-dharmo vigunah para-dharmat
> svanusthitat sva-dharme nidhanam shreyah para-dharmo bhayavahah" Of course
> in this particular context Bhagwan is referring to the ashramadharma and
> varnadharma, but in todays context we can by implication allow this
> principle to guide us in regards to the issue of interfaith conversion. To
> say that a devout Christian who with unswerving faith embraces austerity,
> and penance, and charity, and meditation, and dispassion to the world, and
> Supreme love and prayer to the Lord, the Father in Heaven, and Surrender,
> will be denied the Kingdom of God - unless that earns him enough karmic
> points to find Hinduism is this lifetime and come to Vedanta - to my mind is
> what is chauvinistic. Let everyone have not only the freedom but let
> everyone be encouraged to have unswerving faith and devotion to his or her
> religious background and
> its doctrines and its "God" - i.e. the one they were born with - such is an
> attitude that stems from implicit faith in the infallibility of the Order
> that is Ishwara, and that this Order would have rightfully fashioned for an
> individual the environs that are best suited to his or her spiritual
> upliftment, and that every such environ has validity in its sphere of
> influence. A person who loses faith in his doctrine today and is looking for
> a change, may well be the doubting Thomas who loses faith in the new
> religion he is now embracing, as soon as his wavering mind finds some other
> faith even more appealing.
> 
> All of religion is ONLY about spiritual progress as its ultimate
> goal...bereft of this end, no religion including the vedic path, has any
> relevance whatsoever.
> 
> Hari OM
> Shyam
> 
> 
> 
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