[Advaita-l] saMnyAsa and brAhmaNas (was RE: Fw: Re: waking, dreaming, sleeping as mutually supportive)

[Sunil Bhattacharjya]

Dear friends, 

Real Sannyasha occurs at that time of Vairagya bur it should not be momentary. When one goes to the cremation ground some get the Smashaan Varagya but that vanishes a little while tater. Once a person takes a decision to continue in the path then taking formal Sannyasha does help though it is not an absolute must. The Brahmin-turned-sannyashis do wear ochre robes symbolising fire as they have internalised the fire and would not perform any fire rituals thereafter. Unlike the Vanaprasthis the Sannyashis are allowed to go to Grihasthi households to beg for food and they can teach also. [Vanaprasthis are not allowed to visit the households for their food and Manu had prevented the Vnaprasthis from earning their meal through practice of astrology also. They do retain the fire rituals, while living in the forest.]. Though the Sannyashis are Alinga ie supposed to be without any mark, it is necessary for the Brahmin Sannyashi to wear special robes for the sake
 others and nor for their own. This is because the sight of the Sannyashi would remind the other ashramis regarding the final lap of the journey everybody has to undertake and further  the Sannyashi can be approached by others for learning from them.

I hope the learned scholars will give their valuable comments on it.

Regards,

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Mon, 10/26/09, Suresh Marur <suresh.marur at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Suresh Marur <suresh.marur at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] saMnyAsa and brAhmaNas (was RE: Fw: Re: waking, dreaming, sleeping as mutually supportive)
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Monday, October 26, 2009, 9:56 PM

I do not claim authority based on scriptures for my comment. At some level,
looking for scriptutal sanction becomes a theoretical debate and a purely
intellectual exercise.

Leaving aside what the scriptural injuctions (or the lack of) may be, it is
eventually question of when one is (or I am) ready for Samnyaasa. That in my
mind will come ONLY when the vairagya is so strong that there is no
attachment to worldly pursuits and  the ego is ripe enough to start on the
last leg to liberation.

To me samnyaasa is not like a "decision"one takes like embarking on a
journey. The urge for liberation to that ego would be so intense that there
is NO value for the world as those caught up in samsaara view it. Once
there, it is of no consequence what varna the person belongs to. I can only
conclude that at that point Sanyaasa "happens" much as we all grow and
become adults.

Varnas are after all artifacts of samsara and Dharma which are to be
transcended on the way on liberation.

- Suresh

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <
svidyasankar at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> More than two years ago, we had a discussion thread on this list titled
>
> "sannyAsa and jnAna," covering much of the same ground about what
>
> the authorities say about traditional saMnyAsa and who is eligible for it.
>
> At the time, another member of this list, Siva Senani, referred to the
>
> extensive study published in Sri P. V. Kane's encyclopedic volumes
>
> titled "History of Dharmasastra" and gave a number of citations from it.
>
> I would suggest, if anyone wants to get a fully rounded picture of this,
>
> please go back to the archives (Feb 2007) or please read Kane directly.
>
>
>
> For our purposes here, here is what sureSvara says on bRhadAraNyaka
>
> 3. 5. 1:
>
>
>
> trayANAm api varNAnAM Srutau saMnyAsa-darSanAt |
>
> brAhmaNasyaiva saMnyAsa iti bhAshyaM virudhyate ||
>
>
>
> trayANAm aviSesheNa saMnyAsaS SrUyate Srutau |
>
> yadopalakshaNArthaM syAt brAhmaNa-grahaNaM tadA ||
>
>
>
> karmAdhikaravicchedi jnAnaM ced abhyupeyate |
>
> kuto'dhikAra-niyamo vyutthAne kriyate balAt ||
>
>
>
> pratyag-yAthAtmya-vijnAna-svabhAvaS cet samarthyate |
>
> vyutthAnaM yasya yasya syAt sa sa vyutthAtum arhati ||
>
>
>
> sureSvarAcArya does not give specific citations here, but his reference
>
> has to be to the same sources that the mitAkshara (commentary by
>
> vijnAneSvara on yAjnavalkya smRti) cites -
>
>
>
> trayANAM varNAnAM vedam adhItya catvAra ASramA iti sUtrakAra-
>
> vacanAc ca dvijAti-mAtrasya adhikAram AhuH - this is apparently a
>
> reference to kAtyAyana (sUtrakAra) and I presume kAtyAyana has
>
> specific Sruti/sMrti statements in mind.
>
>
>
> In any case, sureSvara's view is crystal clear - the traditionally approved
>
> type of saMnyAsa is allowed to all dvija-s in the Sruti. His position is
> also
>
> totally consistent with the advaita view of jnAna itself. If nothing else,
> it
>
> beautifully illustrates the close interweaving of renunciation and Self-
>
> knowledge in the advaita tradition.
>
>
>
> The traditional adoption of saMnyAsa, at least in the advaita tradition,
>
> involves giving up the sacred thread that was invested at the beginning
>
> of the student period. Only one who has already had the upanayana
>
> saMskAra can formally give up the sacred thread. Hence the word dvija
>
> in the above references, but note that there is no strict restriction to
>
> brAhmaNa-s only.
>
>
>
> I would also urge a study of sUtrabhAshya 3.4.41 and 3.4.42, where
>
> SankarAcArya quotes verses that refer to dvija (not just brAhmaNa) in
>
> the context of those who fall away from the stringent rules of saMnyAsa
>
> (ArUDhaM naishThikaM dharmaM yastu pracyavate dvijaH ...). If
>
> SankarAcArya was strictly of the opinion that the fourth ASrama is
>
> allowed only for brAhmaNas, he could have quoted other verses here,
>
> or he could have taken the opportunity to state his own view here.
>
> That he does not do so is indicative that sureSvara is not necessarily
>
> going diametrically against Sankara in this regard. The disciple is only
>
> performing his duty as an author of a vArttika and explaining the sUkta,
>
> anukta and durukta parts of the bhAshya.
>
>
>
> I rest my case. If somebody today wants to pit himself or herself against
>
> such time honored authorities as authors of various dharmaSAstras and
>
> sureSvarAcArya, it is their prerogative. I can only say, the traditional
> and
>
> historical record is different, so at least acknowledge that this is what
> the
>
> record is. To repeat, saMnyAsins who happen to have been born in other
>
> varNa-s can be fully within the ambit of the vedAnta tradition and indeed
>
> have been fully approved by the traditional authorities of advaita vedAnta.
>
>
>
> Vidyasankar
>
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