[Advaita-l] Fw: Re: waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually supportive

[Sunil Bhattacharjya]

Dear Anbu Sivamji,
 
This is a peculiar situation. There are several problems in giving initiation to a non-brahmin to Sannyasha by a brahmin institution. If a non-brahmin sannyashi comes to beg in a brahmin household then there may be problems of protocol. I don't find the appropriate word here. But a sannyashi does not have any problem anywhere as he does not have Varna any more after the initiation. Even a brahmin-turned-sannyashi leaves the fire and also leaves his upavita and he cannot be distinguished from a non-brahmin sannyashi. The Sannyashi becomes namashya to all. So it is probably more a social problem than a religious one.
 
Regards,
 
Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
 


--- On Wed, 10/21/09, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: Re: waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually supportive
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 5:34 PM


Dear Sunilji,

The discussion is about Sanyasa aasrama and who is qualified for it.  So I
quoted the postulation of the Veda and such seers as Vyasa.  I am confronted
with an exceptional act of one particular Aacharyaa of one particular Mutt.
On that basis a judgement was made as follows:

"So, this argument that the jnAna mArga is to be limited to only brAhmaNa-s
and that people of other varNa-s have no adhikAra to become saMnyAsins *would
seem like an ultra-conservative view that is not upheld even by some of the
most notable AcAryas of advaita vedAnta tradition."
*
The fact remains that none of the Sankara, Ramanuja or Madhwa Mutts admit as
inmates anyone other than those who were Brahmanas.  As far as the
non-Brahmins of Tamilnadu were concerned there have been/are numerous
Aadheenams all under their Aagamic brands.  Generally Sankaracharyas do not
interfere with aagamic institutions.  However they are never considered as
inimical institutions.  Only the DMK govt. has been encouraging the aagamic
institutions to be against the Kanchi Mutt.  Such problem does not arise in
Karnataka or any other state.  The naattukkottai aadheenam brands itself as
vedantic and surely not aagamic.  So they were coming close to the Sankara
Mutt.  I hope these institutions last and do good work to their community.
But this is besides the point.  Sankara or Ramanuja or Madhwa Mutts do not
as a clear policy advocate establishment of non-Brahmin Mutts and neither do
they admit any of the non-Brahmins sanyaasis into their own Mutt. That is
how all the Aachaaryaas of the three Vedaanthic institutions have behaved in
their entire past except one perhaps for good reason.

Is this ultra-conservative view?  Who would sanction a liberal view and on
what basis?  Are there really number of 'notable Achaaryas' bent on setting
a new tradition?  In that case is there a known conflict between aachaaryaas
ongoing?

All I am saying is that exception proves the opposite.



On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dear Anbu Sivamji,
>
> Birth in a particular varna is not by accident. It is due to the past karma
> and hence when someone says that brahmins are best suited to  particular way
> of pursuit it has meaning. But someone with appropriate karma in this life
> can make up the past deficiencies and they may look like exceptions but they
> have reasons too. So we must have a total view as to what is the general
> norm and how the exceptions are possible. Thus we have to accommodate the
> exceptions too but with a clear knowledge that these are exceptions only.
> Any adamance on either side will not help.
>
> Regards,
>
> --- On Wed, 10/21/09, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: Re: waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually
>  supportive
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 1:59 PM
>
> People who live by exceptions are a mockery to logic.
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <
> svidyasankar at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > My view is that the gnaana maarga is apt only for the Brahmanas because
> > of
> > > the guna composition of his varna and not suitable for persons of other
> > > varnas for the same reason. A mumukshu becomes a sanyaasi on the
> > initiation
> > > by a Guru and on realization becomes a Guru himself. Such ability to
> > impart
> > > knowledge is part of realization. The Sankara, Vaishnava and Maadhva
> > Mutts
> > > are examples of who had the adhikaaram to become a Sanyaasi. Those who
> > > realized through other maargas seldom competed for such adhikaaras.
> >
> >
> > The reality is that saMnyAsa is approved of and historically well-known
> for
> > all
> >
> > dvija-s. In fact, there are well documented examples of saMnyAsins and
> > maThas
> >
> > associated with other varNas. For example, the Kovilur Math in Tamil
> Nadu,
> >
> > associated with the Nattukottai Chettiars (www.kovilur.com) and the
> > Haldipur
> >
> > Vaishya Math in Karnataka (www.vaishyagurumath.org) are both seats of
> >
> > saMnyAsin lineages from merchant communities and both have historical
> >
> > records of getting initiation from the Sringeri AcAryas.
> >
> >
> >
> > So, this argument that the jnAna mArga is to be limited to only
> brAhmaNa-s
> >
> > and that people of other varNa-s have no adhikAra to become saMnyAsins
> >
> > would seem like an ultra-conservative view that is not upheld even by
> some
> >
> > of the most notable AcAryas of advaita vedAnta tradition.
> >
> >
> >
> > Vidyasankar
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>
_______________________________________________
Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita

To unsubscribe or change your options:
http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l

For assistance, contact:
listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org