[Advaita-l] Fw: Re: waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually supportive

[Anbu sivam2]

Quote: "There is also no guarantee that knowing Atman is nearest to the
brAhmaNa and progressively farther away for other varNa-s."

In quite a few of my postings I have reiterated the Vedic view that all are
Brahman and therefore everyone has a right to know himself.  Yes of course,
we are Brahman but we do not know!  If it is not for the Veda we would never
know.

I have also time and again posted our Lord's view that there are four-fold
paths to attaining Brahman.  What is unfortunate is that people try to take
that it is optional for anyone to pick and choose the path.  There is no
scriptural support to such a view.  I will be delighted to know if there is
any.  However I hasten to add that such option would vitiate the varnasrama
dharma.  Buddhists opened the gnana maarga (however faulty it was) to one
and all and that upset sooner than later the social harmony based on
varnasrama dharma.  The rajas realized this and reverted back to Hinduism.
Yathaa raaja thathaa praja.  Buddhism slowly lost its grip on the Indian
masses.

So let me restate my view.  ALL ARE BRAHMAN ONLY THAT WE DO NOT KNOW.  IT IS
THE VEDA THAT TELL US THAT WE ARE BRAHMAN WITHOUT WHICH WE WOULD EVER BE
DROWNED IN IGNORANCE. OUR LORD IN BHAGAVAT GEETHA TOLD US THAT THERE ARE
FOUR PATHS OF ATTAINING HIM (WHICH ENTAILS ONE TO BEING BRAHMAN AND KNOWING
BRAHMAN).

Quote: "Ultimately, mumukshutva and knowing/being brahman are beyond all
dharma-s."

It is true that knowing Brahman is Being Brahman and vice versa so much so
it is absolute and cannot be conditioned by dharma.

Bhishma says that Brahman is Sarvadharma.

*I fail to understand why a mumukshu is clubbed with Brahman and held to be
beyond dharma. * A mumukshu is a seeker of Brahman and therefore not a
knower of Brahman.  I therefore have to disagree that a mumukshu is beyond
dharma.  I hope you realize that even a sanyaasi has to conform to his
dharma otherwise he will forfeit his aashrama.

Secondly the term mumukshu is applied to the one who seeks gnaana maarga
only.

My view is that the gnaana maarga is apt only for the Brahmanas because of
the guna composition of his varna and not suitable for persons of other
varnas for the same reason.  A mumukshu becomes a sanyaasi on the initiation
by a Guru and on realization becomes a Guru himself.  Such ability to impart
knowledge is part of realization.  The Sankara, Vaishnava and Maadhva Mutts
are examples of who had the adhikaaram to become a Sanyaasi.  Those who
realized through other maargas seldom competed for such adhikaaras.


Quote: "In my personal experience with people, the mental block provided by
pride in high birth is often a huge one."

Such abhimaanam is born of ignorance and those abhimaanis would not qualify
to be mumukshus. However this cannot be the reason to open up gnaana maarga
to all varnas.  We have seen time and again that such people treading into
this continue to see the Truth differently all the time trying to refashion
it!

On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <
svidyasankar at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> > Quote: "This has nothing to do with modern secular ideas of equality, but
> it
> > has everything to do with developing the qualities needed for a mumukshu.
> > Please read the prose chapters of upadeSasAhasrI to get Sankara
> > bhagavatpAda's own words on the subject."
> >
> >
> > This is truly arbitrary and out of hand rejection of a view of guna-karma
> > vibhagam that is held fundamental to the Hindu view. I hope you have had
> > time to read my fully delineated rendition in my musings posted in this
> > forum on this subject of Guna in relation to the secular views.
>
>
> I am not taking any stance with respect to guNa-karma-vibhAga here at all.
>
>
>
> I am also not talking of svadharma and paradharma here.
>
>
>
> Ultimately, mumukshutva and knowing/being brahman are beyond all dharma-s.
>
> However, being born a brAhmaNa does not guarantee that mumukshutva arises
>
> in the mind. There is also no guarantee that knowing Atman is nearest to
> the
>
> brAhmaNa and progressively farther away for other varNa-s.
>
>
>
> In my personal experience with people, the mental block provided by pride
> in
>
> high birth is often a huge one. That is all. Please do remember that the
> saMnyAsin
>
> is required to shed not only personal property and home, but also the varNa
> and
>
> gotra given by birth.
>
>
>
> Vidyasankar
>
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