[Advaita-l] Fw: Re: waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually supportive

[Vishy]

Dear Michealji,
 
 
Though I am born Hindu Brahmin, I am sure you are better euipped in these matters than me.
But unfortunately, even our own people have seldom gone in depths of the real philosophy and made the religion a bundle of rituals,as I said , fell to the trap of mind (and not ready to acknowledge it, forget comming out of it.)
 
As I understood, Turiya need not be merely a state of thoughtlessness that you encounter when you meditate. Its the state of continuous awareness even in the three other states.thats sort of pure witnessing state without any desire/ fear or any sort of attachement to anything.
 
In other words, complete absence of 'I ' feeling ,unless when requiered to deal with others in normal life situations. If you consider Jeevanmuktha state as dropping the mind completely for ever, Turiya is the state where you can swith the mind off when not requiered. That ability to switch off can be mastered only as the result of sadhana. This sadhana could be in the form of Bhakthi yoga, Jnana yoga, karma yoga or raja yoga, but whatever form it is , we should remember they are only means and not end by itself.
 
In that way even sanyas is also means in Jnana marga. Unless one realize this sanyas it self could prove to be a trap in strenthening the mind . similarly Bhakthi, Karma paths too.
 
 
Request you to kindly let me know whether I have understood thingls properly
 
 
Pranams
Vishy
 
 
 


--- On Sun, 18/10/09, Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:


From: Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: Re: waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually supportive
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Sunday, 18 October, 2009, 3:57 PM


Dear Vishyji,

That's well put. I'm well acquainted with the theory and practice of Advaita
Vedanta, and believe I have some sense of what the fourth state might be or
is.

What intrigues me is: we could imagine a life which consists of 16 hours
waking and 8 hours sleeping, let's say. But in between these great states
which shape our lives, is that state we call drfeaming; which seems to be a
collection of mostly left-over thoughts, feelings, etc assembled into a kind
of fantasy.

Now some sages would say, let these go, pay no attention. Others would say,
it's a reminder that our so-called 'waking' state is mostly conducted in a
sort of 'waking dream' where the same ragbag fantasy accompanies every
moment of ahamkara's devices which we have built to distract us from staying
in pure atman...

And I know that the shastra identify seven sorts of dream. We live in a
scientific culture' I'm just wondering if there is more to be discovered --
not in the scientiific field alone, that's going ahead anyway; but whether
there is anything to learn from this universal state in terms of our
sadhana.

Of course, it's all 'taken care of' : turiya is the rest of unnecessary
thought in the rest of the mind; so no dream..

No big deal; just an enquiry.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Vishy
Sent: 18 October 2009 10:02
To: To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
Subject: [Advaita-l] Fw: Re: waking, dreaming, sleeping,as mutually
supportive





--- On Sun, 18/10/09, Vishy <vishy1962 at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Vishy <vishy1962 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually supportive
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Sunday, 18 October, 2009, 1:41 PM







Dear Michealji
 
Let me try to share my inderstsnding in this rgeard......
 
What you see or experience in waking state only gets reprojected in dream
state and all these would remain latent in deep sleep state, only to make
you desire / fear such experience once again when you wakeup. As long as our
attention is focused to the material things/ thoughts , we get trapped in
this cycle and can never experience the fouth state at all.
 
All these three states are well with in the grips of Mind which is seat of
the Ego. Thus we identify everything with this 'I' as I am doing , I am
dreaming and I was sleeping. Breaking this cycle and going beyond this is to
reach the witnessing state, the fourth.
 
But to even reach this state we should use the mechanisms of the same mind.
That is to see / study the stuff that leads to the truth (shravana),
continue the same very thoughts even in your dream (manana) and let that go
down deep even in deep sleep state (niddyasana) so that cycle is broken in
course of time. Possibly palying the same tricks of the mind to encounter
itself. But we should be well aware that we are indulging in the same trick
to counter the tricks of the mind otherwise we will get sucked into the
illusion of chasing enlightenment.   
 
 
Pranams
Vishy
 
 


--- On Sat, 17/10/09, Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:


From: Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually supportive
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Saturday, 17 October, 2009, 4:43 PM


Dear Vishyji

The 'four states' are quoted ad infinitum. What I am asking for is new
thinking  under Advaita, on how these states may interact -- as they
obviously do -- to their mutual benefit in the sadhana..

Michael



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