[Advaita-l] vanaprastha in community

[Dr. Yadu Moharir]

Namaste Michael-Ji:
 
Thanks for kind words.
 
I think you have gathered the real essence, the "puruShaa" of the term "vaanaprasta" and are appear to be using it in your life.

The purpose of specifically mentioning "living off cultivated land" clearly suggests to me that my ancestors wanted to remain useful to the society for the maximum period.  Often the term vaanaprasta people just interpret as living in the forest does not appeal to me.
 
Kind regards,
 
Dr. Yadu

--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:


From: Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Advaita-l] vanaprastha in community
To: ymoharir at yahoo.com
Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 2:18 AM



Gentlemen,
 
Thank you for your very wide-ranging responses on vanaprastha, and especial thanks to Dr Yadu. I was beginning to think that there were more vyangyarthas than laksanas concerning vanaprastha !
 
And perhaps there should be. Despite the rude remarks of some of you about 'Western retirement', I and those of my circle have found that the years after 'retirement' from paid work, and with sons and daughters creating their own families, are the most fruitful of our lives in their freedom : we are fully engaged in unpaid, if not unrewarded, work for the 'larger circle' of humanity. 
 
And in a subtler way, the recommended detachment from networks, organizations and institutions, that goes with vanaprastha, allows one to keep a wider mind than such 'loyalties' require of one.
 
So there is a reason to my enquiry.
 
 (And I'm happy to say that my enthusiastic planting of trees front and back of our tiny garden, now maturing, enables me to claim to be a forest-dweller in the letter of the law... )
 
Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: ymoharir at yahoo.com [mailto:ymoharir at yahoo.com]
Sent: 16 June 2009 02:52
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Cc: michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk; sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] vanaprastha in community






Deal List:
 
Her is some information I have in my notes and some of you may find it useful pertaining to "vaanaprata"
 
There are two laxaNaa's of the term "vaanaprasta"
 
1.  gR^ihasthaashramamapahaaya gR^ihiitamunivR^ittirasa.nnyastaH ||
 
Meaning - voluntarily renouncing gR^ihastaashrama without going through "sa.nnyaa" one lives in the forest while observes "munivR^ittii".
 
2.  putramutpaddya vanavaasaM kR^itvaa akR^iShTapacaphalaadi bhaxayitvaa iishvaraaaadhanaM karoti yaH sa vaanaprasthaH || shbdakalpadruma ||
 
Meaning - Going the forest after creating progeny and living there consuming roots & fruits from the cultivate land and continues to "iishvara aaraadhanaa" (austerities) is "vaanaprasta".
 
There is no reference of "vaanaprasta" in R^igveda per say, In taa.nDya braahmaNa (14.16) there is a reference of vaikkhaanasa munii.  He was most probably "vaanaprasta" because baudhayaana suutra (2.6.19) there it says that the one who observes vidhii-nishedha as per vaikhaanasashaastra is "vaanaprasta".
 
First clear documentation of "vaanaprasta". appears in jaabaalopaniShaada:
 
brahmacarya parisamaapya gR^ihii bhaved gR^ihii bhuutvaa vanii bhavedvanii bhuutvaa pravajet |
 
Meaning - After completing brahmacarya accept and become gR^ihasta (householder).  After completing (duties of) gR^ihasta go into the forest and finally after completing vaanaprasta take sa.nnyaasa.
 
According to Manu vaanaprasta is only for traivarNika and not for shuudra..  However, if king recommends the shuudra can take vaanaprasta. (mahaabhaarata shaanti parva 63.12).
 
It appears that vaanaprasta became popular in brahmaaNa and kshatriiya.  vyaasa, vaalmiikii, atrii, sharabha.nga, sutiixNa,  ... et. al. were all "vaanaprasta".  yayaatii, dhR^itaraaShTra, raghuu were kshatriya "vaanaprasta".  dhR^itaraaShTra entrusts the responsibility of kigndom on his children and takes "vaanaprasta". (M.B. shaa. pa. 321.38).
 
Hope this helps answer some of the question of Sri Michael.
 
Kind Regards,
 
Dr. Yadu

--- On Sun, 6/14/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] vanaprastha in community
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 7:11 PM


Michaelji,
 
In the Mahabharata times there have been cases where the Vanaparasthis did go to the Vana (or forest) but I do not think that there is any such injunction that the Vanaprasthis must go to the forest. One can join some of the residential ashramas or can stay at the house itself but must  slowly withdraw from the househols responsibilities and should devote more and more time in spiritual studies and practice..
 
Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Sun, 6/14/09, Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:


From: Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] vanaprastha in community
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 5:07 AM


Sunilji,

Thank you for your prompt response. In practice, does the  vanaprasthi
remain in the family home, but 'retired' -- like a Western gentleman in his
'study' room ?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Sunil
Bhattacharjya
Sent: 14 June 2009 12:54
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] vanaprastha in community



Dear Michaelji,
 
Vanaprastha is the  stage of retirement from the household responsibilities
and is  the stage of trying to understand the spiritual aspects of whatever
Vaidic karma  one has been doing   as a householder, studying the sacred
texts, having spiritual discussions with the Guru and the other
Vanaprasthis.  Vanaprasthis do not have to give up the fire rituals etc.
Only in the next stage of  Sanyasha that one gives up  the  family  and the
samsara  as well as the fire rituals and  one  cannot stay in one place for
long.
 
Regards,
 
Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Sun, 6/14/09, Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:


From: Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: [Advaita-l] vanaprastha in community
To: "advaita vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 4:17 AM


Months without questions, and now two at once !

Q: does the tradition speak of  vanaprastha as entirely to do with personal
moksha; or is there a wider view of it ? i.e. does the prescribed
dissociation with institutions or organizations, still have a spiritual or
social connection with the community ?

The idea of vanaprastha as social isolation feels to me as lacking something
vital..

I hope this question makes some sense..

Michael



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