[Advaita-l] Fw: Sankara Mutt

[Srikrishna Ghadiyaram]

Dear Sri Anupam

Please see my comments in-line.

Regards

Srikrishna

--- On Thu, 9/18/08, anupam srivatsav <anupam.srivatsav at gmail.com> wrote:
From: anupam srivatsav <anupam.srivatsav at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: Sankara Mutt
To: srikrishna_ghadiyaram at yahoo.com, "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 8:49 PM

Dear Sri Krishna,

Thanks for your email to this list.  
-----
Begin-SK

??

End-SK
-----

I know the discussions are going
out side the scope of this list.  
----
Begin-SK

How do you know? Are you the moderator? or are you the final 
'all-knowing'?

BTW, is discussion on ways and means of dissemination Vedic 
knowledge out side the scope of this list?

In any case my post is in reply to two other previous posts. 
You need to tell them that their posts were out side the scope!

End-SK
----

But, one thing I can say here is
that, you may read the pages of history more properly before you make
any post here like this.  

----
Begin-SK

Are you asking me to read Indian history or world history, or 
advaita-l pages?

Is my ignorance so palpable in my post?

End-SK
--------

I completely agree with what Sri
Vidyashankar says.

-----
Begin-SK

How does it matter to me? or what does it add to the discussion 
here. Vidyashankar expressed many views on important topics
of common interest. But, how does it make what I have to say
irrelevant?

End-SK
------

Dear Sri Krishna, please dont think that there is any dearth of
Sanskrit speaking people in this world.  

-----
Begin-SK

How do you know I think some way? BTW, is it overflowing 
with Sanskrit SPEAKING people?


End-SK

----

Only frogs in the well do not
know the value of the lotus.  Bees know them and come from a long
distance.  
-----

Begin-SK

Who are the frogs here?

End-SK
-----


Many many of my friends are sanskirt scholars and to your
surprise, some of my european and american friends are also scholars
in Sanskrit.   
----

Begin-SK

How many many of your friends are we talking about 5 .. 10 .. 20 .. 100 ? 
Well, my being surprised can't make the world wonder.

Are we talking about Sanskrit scholarship or 
Vedic scholarship or both or more? 

End-SK
---------

Have you ever read any book that has been written in
some language and translated into any other language?  Can any
language deliver the same charm of any theme when translated from
another language?  You are talking about languages.  The language of
Sanskrit is THE systematic language.  None of your languages are so
systematic as that of Sanskirt, which is the mother of all your modern
languages.
-----

Begin-SK

You are talking as if you are the GURU of all languages. In how many languages 
are you proficient and scholar? 

I agree every language has its own beauty. I am neither a philologist 
nor a linguist.

How is all this related to Sankara Mutt or learning meaning of 
Vedas ?

End-SK
--------
Also, a true scholar of any language will not criticise the other one,
unless one is a pervert.  

-----
Begin-SK

Which rule of Newton is this?

I am not a scholar of any language. 
Neither is this a thread on languages.
Do you want to still classify me as a pervert. That is fine.
Solve the problems of the world, that is all I want.

End-SK
-----

One sees bad things outside, because those
very bad things are in him.

-------
Begin-SK

First stop being a preacher, and become a list member. Let me
decide if I should look upon you as a teacher, based on your
wisdom, not based on your self-professed high standards 
of knowledge and contemplation.

End-SK
---------

Contemplate a while to understand.

----
Begin-SK
A list is to share ideas, Knowledge and wisdom. Not take sides
and advice a 'Ney' sayer to 'contemplate'.

If we can be focused on knowledge, then a lot of good will 
be done to the world. Then only I can be educated.

End-SK
---------

With best wishes,
Anupam.

On 9/18/08, Srikrishna Ghadiyaram <srikrishna_ghadiyaram at yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> It is silly to assume that learning Sanskrit is the minimum requirement to
know what is said in the Veda or to know the meaning and purpose of the rituals
performed.
>
> Do you see all the Math people conversing in Sanskrit, even among
themselves?
>
> It is even sillier to assume that all the Maths concur on the idea and
purpose for not-translating the Vedic books. They have not come together on one
purpose of agreement to respect each other's opinion and make a common
effort to propagate Sankara Vedanta. Yes, they do propagate within their own
whimsical ideology and circles. They keep giving general lectures on puja
worship which are later day inventions of Vedic period.
>
> The recent Kanchi acharya issue is a testimony to the fact of how much of
approval rating (?) they have among masses. One may attribute all of this to the
political problem. But, this also shows how much disconnected they are from the
people. Politicians are people too!
>
> I do not know in which Veda books it is said that a sanyasi must do
'social work'.
>
> Many Brahmanas have shamelessly taken to tasks other than simplicity,
study, truth, charity, ritual and contemplation, and good will for all. No Math
is able to make the followers of those Math to stick to their Brahmana dharma.
Most people go for money earning jobs in society, and do not even perform their
Brahmana dharma even as an additional chore. There is a huge disagreement on the
definition of Brahmana itself. Some say things have changed in the medival
times. I am not an expert in this area.
>
> As per the tradition, as some say, Upanishads have to be studied by the
renunciate. How many renunciates are here on this list that are studying
Upanishads from their gurus?
>
> Just because their depth of Sanskrit scholarship takes them only to the
level of Upanishad commentaries, and they do not have the guts to study and
practice the other rituals mentioned in the earlier portions of the texts,
having taken to other studies and jobs, utterly disregard others rights to know
Veda in the medium of their understanding.
>
> Not everyone is interested in knowing the meaning of the Veda. Only the
well meaning care to enquire. If only the resources are available, some one will
be motivated to go further. Who knows they may learn Sanskrit as they feel its
necessecity.
>
> I personally feel that there are less competent people who can properly
explain the Vedic texts. Just becasue there are not many people interested in
reading this kind of books, translators are not coming forward. I am confident,
there are many greedy Brahmanas and Sanskrit scholars who will translate, if
there is money and recognition. But, where are the real practitioners,
compasionate people,  who can write with their own experience?
>
> Regards
>
> Srikrishna
>
>
> --- On Thu, 9/18/08, Krishnamurthy Ramakrishna
<puttakrishna at verizon.net> wrote:
> From: Krishnamurthy Ramakrishna <puttakrishna at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw:  Sankara Mutt
> To: "'Siva Senani Nori'" <sivasenani at yahoo.com>,
"'A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta'"
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 8:23 AM
>
> Sri shiva Senani,
> VERY WELL SAID!!! Cannot disagree with you a bit!
> There is a qualification (pre-requisite) that is needed for learning
> Any discipline - science, art or religion. Learning Sanskrit is the
> pre-requisite for learning our Veda (unfortunately I am not versed in
> Sanskrit either). As you rightly pointed out, until we do that, we have
the
> word of our elders. After all, this can't be any worse than the
improperly
> translated public domain information. This is the reason why Krishna
ordered
> -
> "idam te nAtapaskAya nAbhaktAya kadAchana
> na chAshushruShave vAchyam na cha mAm yO abhyasUyati" - (18-67).
>
> The four qualifications Krishna is prescribing for learning the science of
> Liberation(which applies for learning any discipline for that matter) are
>
> 1) austerity -preparing the mind for the receipt of the knowledge
> 2) Devotion - This also translates to shradDha; without faith, there is
> scope for misuse of the knowledge.
> 3) Service to elders and teacher
> 4) Regard for the Lord.
>
> Needless to say learning Sanskrit is the austerity required for studying
> Veda.
>
> Regards,
> Ramakrishna.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org] On Behalf Of Siva
> Senani Nori
> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:57 AM
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> Subject: [Advaita-l] Fw: Sankara Mutt
>
> > Sri Narayan Iyer
> >
> > praNAm.
> >
> > > My question basically arises due to non-availability of
translation
> of
> veda
> > > samhitas, aranyakas etc.  The only translated versions available
are
> by
> > western
> > > scholars and the translation leaves much to be desired.  Can
Sankara
> mutts do
> > > something about it.
> >
> > In this Google Age, meta-knowledge is everything; knowledge is a
lowly
> > 'acquirable' commodity; we expect to know everything about
> everything in
> an
> > instant. So, why not Vedas? For the simple reason that, they ought
not to
> be
> > translated or made available to all and sundry.
> >
> > For those who have the eligiblity and duty to learn the Vedas, the
proper
> way to
> > learn the Vedas is in person from a teacher. After mastering the
corpus,
> years
> > of meditation upon the meaning is mandated along with daily recital
of
> some
> > portion of the corpus and regular practices involving the corpus.
> Thereupon,
> > having seen the face of one's grandson, one ought to give up the
> practice
> more
> > or less, except offering three handfuls of water to the Sun thrice a
day,
> and
> > explore the Ultimate. Thereafter with a burning desire to know the
> Ultimate, one
> > ought to give up everything in life and pursue the Ultimate.
> >
> > That is the way Vedas are meant to be learnt. That is the way, the
Sankara
> Mutts
> > arrange for teaching the Vedas. They believe in this ardently and do
not
> see why
> > a translation is needed (If you are a believer, you would not ask for
one;
> if
> > you are not, well, thank you for your interest as an anthropologist
in
> knowing
> > more about our tribal ways, but we are not interested; if you want
> to learn our
> > language and translate yourselves, so be it). For those, who want to
know
> the
> > essence of Vedas, but can't learn the Vedas, Ramayana,
Mahabharata and
> the
>
> > Puranas are available. They can be translated; they have been
translated;
> are
> > available; and we have the word of our elders - who have no motive to
> misguide
> > us - that they contain the essence of the way of life taught in the
> Vedas.
> >
> > Now, you may ask, as to what all of us do on this list. Very orthodox
> believers
> > freely translate portions of the Veda, and cite numerous sources
where
> > translations are available. Is this not wrong? Definitely, it is
against
> the
> > practice of our elders. If the Vedas are supposed to be secret, the
> Upanishads
> > are more secret than that, guhyaati guhyam [1]. Well, the behaviour
on
> this list
> > is less than perfect, but one tends to get less and less imperfect,
as one
>
> > travels in this path.
> >
> > I can speak from experience. My grandfather was a very learned
scholar,
> poet,
> > critic and was instrumental in the development of the modern Telugu
> literature
> > through the institution of 'Sahiti Samiti'. My uncles set up
a
> trust in
> his
> > memory to mainly promote Telugu literature. One of the first projects
I
> took to
> > the trust, about ten years ago, was a reasonably thought-through
project
> for
> > translating the Vedas - complete with budget, confirmed contributors
etc.
> I got
> > a strong rebuttal from my uncle with a stern warning not to behave
above
> myself.
> > In a way, my education also started on that day. Ten years down the
road,
> I have
> > some idea as to why such a thing is not done.
> >
> > Sir, the secret of Vedas, that so intrigued Dara Shikoh, can be
stated in
> three
> > sentences. This world is unreal; Brahman alone is real; the Atman is
the
> same as
> > Brahman. Everything else in the vedas is to to elaborate, explain and
> prepare
> > one to realise, this truth. One more thing. Claims such as the above
were
> not
> > made lightly by our ancestors. So every syllable was shown to serve
one of
> the
> > stated purposes by the commentators / critics.
> >
> > Now that the secret essence is out of the bag, the only remaining
purpose
> is
> > secondary: to explain, elaborate and prepare. The parts that explain,
> elaborate
> > and discuss -  the Upanishads - have been translated and extensively
> commented
> > upon. An English translation of the part that prepares - the karma
kanda -
> is
> > fairly useless in achieving its purpose. The purpose - of preparation
- is
>
> > served only when the corpus is approached with great reverence. You
> > repeat thousands of times the phrase "asau aaditya brahma"
and
> you will
> start
> > believing that the Sun is Brahman. Then you start wondering why the
Sun
> is
>
> > Brahman and you will arrive at the law of conservation of
mass-energy,
> that is
> > you realise the Brahman in the annamaya koSa. Then like Indra or
Bhrigu,
> you
> > reflect, and realise that it cannot be so; so you meditate further
and
> discover
> > the Brahman in the praaNamaya koSa. And so on. I might be off the
mark in
> my
> > speculation, but observe the elders:
> > they do not even open the cover of a Ramayana or Mahabharata or
Bhagavata
> > without first bowing to the god on the cover and ensuring that they
are in
> a
> > clean state. I heard of a project of translating some work from
Sanskrit
> to
> > Telugu commissioned (~ 120 years back) by a Madras based publisher,
> Ramaswamy
> > Sastrulu and Sons; the commissioned scholars used to start work more
or
> less at
> > dawn, would work studiously till a late lunch and then stop. They
would
> come
> > back the next day at dawn again. Sacred work was not done after
meals.
> Such
> > being the reverence for Ramayana etc., one can only imagine what is
the
> desired
> > respect towards Vedas.
> >
> > Once one has it, the question of translation does not arise.
> >
> > To sum, the Vedas are not translated because they would serve no
useful
> purpose
> > in translation.
> >
> > budhajanavidheyah
> > Senani
> >
> > [1] Why are the Upanishads very secret? The secret teaching - that
> Brahman
> alone
> > is Real, that you are That, that the world is not real - is prone to
> extreme
> > mis-interpretation and consequent misfortunes (I am Brahman, what I
do is
> > dharma, so I will behave selfishly - Brahman itself is this
selfishness
> you know
> > - and with absolute recklessness... this kind of thinking and
consequent
> > misdeeds). I would want to add "fear of ridicule" as
another
> reason, but
> our
> > mature, calm, self-restrained ancestors would not have minded
ridicule, I
> guess;
> > they would merely have wanted to avoid misfortune for the fallen
(from the
>
> > Righteous path).
>
>
>
>
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