[Advaita-l] Re: Advaita-l Digest, Vol 46, Issue 23

[kman]

Mahesh,
     My understanding of this scientific experiment is as follows.:
The mind is still only one which makes cognition based on information
available.
It is some what similar to a search engine which has information cataloged
(indexed) on several systems
that are networked. If the network among the cataloged systems malfunctions,
you might get different
answers for the same search at different times. Still the search program is
only one and the information it got
was different based on which network was working at that time.

So I think in this case, the mind is still only one, but it produces results
based on what is available at that point in time.
As Amuthan Ji said, this is still damaged brain and mithya makes you think
that there are two minds when in fact
there is only one.

Pranam
Kris

>
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 21:01:18 +0530
> From: "Mahesh Ursekar" <mahesh.ursekar at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Reconciling current research with Advaitic
>         theory of       mind
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
>         <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <620d6b360702230731m73e1be13h79e12510c82f19ca at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Pranams Amuthan:
>
> You have used the term personality. I would like to clarify my
> understanding
> of this term so that we are on the same boat. It is important since
> split-brain persons do not have multiple personalities like
> schizophrenics.
> They think they are the same person before and after surgery but their
> mind
> works like two independent minds.
>
> I would like to repeat some of the stuff of my last mail (sorry for that)
> but wish to stress some points this time around. The first is that the
> left
> and right hemispheres show marked differences in functionalities as noted
> by:
> "The left hemisphere was shown to be *logical, analytic*, quantitative,
> rational and *verbal*, whereas the right hemisphere was revealed to be *
> conceptual*, holistic, intuitive, *imaginative *and *non-verbal*."
>
> Due to this, when the patient's right brain was asked what he wanted to
> become, he said a draftsman *since that side is imaginative and
> conceptul*while the left side said automobile racer
> *since that side is analyitic and logical*.
>
> While this test may be subjective to some extent, the second test wherein
> "An experiment was done by flashing a word so the right hemisphere of the
> brain would interpret the information. When the patient wrote down the
> word
> his left hand wrote down the correct word flashed. *But when asked what he
> wrote done the patient did not know*. *Since the brain was split the
> information that was given to the right half could not relay the message
> to
> the left side*"
>
> My interpretation of this is that the verbal ability is controlled by the
> left side and since it did not have the information as to what was
> written,
> the patient could not say what the word was.
>
> In summary, the experments show that the mind (or manas) is not working as
> an integrated whole due to the fact that the brain has been split.
> However,
> the individual halves continue to function as before. Two interpretations
> are possible for this:
> a. the mind is a physiological process of the brain and splitting the
> latter has caused a split in the mind
> b. the mind exists independently but due to the fact that the brain has
> been damaged (I mean operated here)  it functions in the manner described
> above
>
> Now b. is what Vedanta would hold but it does not seem to a very strong
> case. As far as I can tell, it is a hypothesis that is not disproved by
> the
> experiments above but at the same time, it is weak in that it gives not a
> clue as to why it should be the case. Now you have attempted to explain
> this
> via vAsanAs/saMskArAsbut I don't know if that could explain it fully.
> After
> all, vAsanAs/saMskArAsare based on previous births and so would vary from
> person to person and might explain why some persons turn schizophrenics.
> However, the above is an experiment which is repeatable in all patients
> who
> have undergone such brain surgery.
>
> Pranams, Mahesh
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/23/07, Amuthan <aparyap at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > namo nArAyaNAya!
> >
> > dear shrI Mahesh Ursekar,
> >
> > On 2/23/07, Mahesh Ursekar <mahesh.ursekar_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Now the above points seem to indicate that the manas or sUkShma
> sharIra
> > > appears to be have been split by the operation so that each half
> behaves
> > > independently of the other. This condition is slightly different from
> > that
> > > of a damaged brain (sthUla sharIra) patient wherein one could say that
> > the
> > > manas cannot carry out certain functions just as a driver cannot drive
> a
> > car
> > > that has been damaged in some way. In this particular case, the
> results
> > of
> > > the experiments above show that the left half and right halves of the
> > manas
> > > work as they did before but due to the missing corpus callosum in
> > between,
> > > they don't work together as one unit. In other words, the removal of
> > > the sthUla tissue of the corpus callosum has caused the sUkShma manas
> to
> > > have split. Of course, one might argue that that is the way manas
> > functions
> > > and it is not really split. But to me that does not seem to be a very
> > strong
> > > argument
> >
> > the condition here is similar to what happens between two births. the
> > person whom you were in any of your previous births could be quite
> > different from who you are now and you typically have no clue about
> > that. even death, which is far more physically destructive than any of
> > the disorders we are talking about, does not cause any harm to the
> > sUkShma sharIra (ref. gItA 'vAsAmsi jIrNAni...').
> >
> > the two cases are not entirely similar either, the difference being
> > that in the split brain case the shift in personality happens at a
> > much shorter time scale and occurs alternatively within a single
> > lifetime. but it is still true that actions done (with any one of
> > those personalities in the split brain case) imprint the corresponding
> > vAsanAs in the manas and generate the corresponding saMskArAs. in this
> > sense, there is no 'damage ' to the sUkShma sharIra which serves as a
> > receptacle for vAsanAs and a generator of saMskArAs. (btw, by a
> > 'damaged' brain, i was having in mind any condition of the brain which
> > is not normal.)
> >
> > thus the cases you have referred to are purely physical disorders and
> > affect the manas only in the sense that they add to the already
> > existing store of vAsanAs.
> >
> > vAsudevaH sarvaM,
> > aparyAptAmRtaH.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:40:44 -0500
> From: "Ravishankar Venkatraman" <sunlike at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Reconciling current research with Advaitic
>         theory  ofmind
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Message-ID: <BAY106-F21C850A97DF2D77A923978AC8E0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> Mahesh Ursekar wrote:
>
> >Thanks for your detailed reply. I agree with your viewpoints to a large
> >extent - including the difference you point out between 'cit of Vedanta'
> >and
> >'consciousness of science'. However, based on my understanding of the
>
> Further to what Shyam said very clearly, I wanted to add a bit more.
>
> The center for sat-chit-ananda (consciousness of Vedanta) is the heart on
> the right side of the chest. This is not the physical heart. Further
> explanation of this could be found in the translations of
> ADVAITA-SAADHANAA
> of Kanchi Mahaswami posted here by Prof. V. Krishnamurthy and also in the
> book "Talks with Sri. Ramana Maharishi". The location for consciousness
> (described in medicine) is the brain. This is a major difference.
>
> When I started reading English translations of various books in Vedanta
> and
> Hinduism 20 years ago,  I used to encounter the word "Ether" often for the
> 5th element "AkAsh". After taking few courses in Modern Physics in
> college,
> where the existance of ether was disproved, I used to have difficulty in
> understanding how to interpret what the translations really meant. Some
> authors used the word "Space" for this.
>
> Similarly, the word consciousness could cause potential confusion among
> readers of Vedanta literature. We may be better off using the actual
> Sanskrit word everywhere.
>
> My 2 cents...
>
> Thanks,
> Ravi
>
>
> >Reply-To: A discussion group for Advaita
> >Vedanta<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> >To: "A discussion group for Advaita
> >Vedanta"<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Reconciling current research with Advaitic
> theory
> >ofmind
> >Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 10:15:19 +0530
> >
> >Pranams Shyamji:
> >
>
> >article posted vis-a-vis Advaitic concepts, it seems that the Advaitic
> >*theory
> >of mind* is undermined. I am not sure if  you have addressed that
> question
> >in enough detail to help me reconcile the scientific findings with
> Advaita.
> >
> >Pranams, Mahesh
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more�.then map the best
> route!
> http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>
>
> End of Advaita-l Digest, Vol 46, Issue 23
> *****************************************
>



-- 
Balu (Kman)