[Advaita-l] RE: Advaita vEdAnta - Unit (11)

[Vishy]

Krunalji
   
  Namaste and thanks for the promt clarifications.
  Ofcourse, I too am bit aware of all these points , But many time feel there is some gap in this whole explanation and we miss something somewhere.
   
  I started feeling that all palas for karms are very much settled here itself , well before last breath and all those really wont have much to do with next birth like.
  But those unfullfilled desires you carry in your mind at the time of death only forces you to look for suitable place to get them fullfilled. 90% of such wishes being common / ordinary ones all those immedeatly find place to take birth where as the other 10% with extrodinary desires (say 5% too good & % 5%
  too wicked) have to wait for years to find suitable womb for reentry. Untill than they would be hovering arround which we call angelic/ demonic spirits.
   
  Ofcourse, these desires are attached to the illsionary (maya) personality called ego (with mind a subtle component) and when you drop your ego, realize that  you are the whole .
   
  . When started (rather it existed all ways or evolved and never started) all at same level but because of the maya created by ego or ego created by maya all these.All are ofcourse illisionary in relative term which simply disappears once that 'ego' is dropped.
   
  This my  understanding and request learned like you to correct me and guide me further.
   
  Pranams 
   
  Viswanathan
   
  (remember we had similar such discussions on basic principle some time ago, Makwhanaji)
   
  

Krunal Makwana <krunalmakwana at hotmail.com> wrote:
  Jai Sri Krsna

Dear Vishwanathanji,

> "There was no such initial state - karma is beginningless. > > This explanation looks too elusive nd certainly doesn't answer the point raised!!!> When the whole karma theory is about cause and effect, how it can be beginingless??? Can someone be clearer on this please.
I think the discussion that you are having is really a 'who came first, chicken or the egg?' situation.

To 'think' of a creation you have to admit mAyA, which in turn is caused by avidyA. According to pujyapAda, avidyA is annirvachaniya, indescribable and anAdi, beginningless. (Reference: AtmA bodha verse 13). So to even say 'there was a time when there was no karma etc' is invalid as we would never know. The mere fact that karma takes place shows that avidya is present!!!

Again going back to the point of karma, karma is an attribute or law which governs all creation (within the realm of maya). Yes, karma propounds the theory of cause and effect as you rightly said BUT (i have to disagree with a fellow list member on karma is 'beginningless'). avidyA is beginningless which then in turns leads to the 'beginning' of karma. Due to the beginning of karma, leads to flaws and falsely establishes the 'dvaita' of AtmA, brahman and the reality of prakr^iti. This is where at the starting of creation (as you said) is without pain, pleasure etc is (to my knowledge) wrong because the flaw of false identification is the REAL flaw. which then turns jiva-s to mundane existence.

> The universe with all jIva-s still exists in subtle form even after dissolution, and these get 'recycled' into the next cycle of creation.

This only exists while the jiva has not reached realisation, and is dependent on Ishvara.
Kind regards,Krunal



> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 04:40:12 +0000> From: vishy1962 at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] RE: Advaita vEdAnta - Unit (11)> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> > "There was no such initial state - karma is beginningless. The universe with all jIva-s still exists in subtle form even after dissolution, and these get 'recycled' into the next cycle of creation."> > This explanation looks too elusive nd certainly doesnt answer the point raised!!!> When the whole karma thoery is about cause and effet, how it can be beginingless??? Can someone be clearer on this please.> > Pranams> Vishwanathan> > > Sankaran Aniruddhan wrote:> namaste,> > Kris Manian wrote:> Let us take the very first time the Jagat was created, when there was no karma> at all for Jivas. At that time how many humans and creatures would have been born?> Probably one of whatever species Brhman wanted, right? (Most probably no> animals, birds, insects etc as they are considered lower forms to human and only
 are> born due to human's bad karma) Because there was no cause for> a vast number of species or vast number of humans as there was no karma to start with. > There would have been no sorrow, no pain and only all bliss, probably like the Garden of Eden? > So what do you think started off this chain of Karma and the world as we see it now? > There was no such initial state - karma is beginningless. The universe with all jIva-s still exists in subtle form even after dissolution, and these get 'recycled' into the next cycle of creation.> > Aniruddhan> > Sruti smRti purANAnAm Alayam karuNAlayam> namAmi bhagavatpAda Sam.karam lokaSam.karam> > > ---------------------------------> Bored stiff? Loosen up...> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.> _______________________________________________> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/> > To unsubscribe or change your options:> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l>
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