[Advaita-l] Re: Advaita vEdAnta - Unit (11)

[Shyam]

Pranams
The issue of beginning and end is all in the realm of
time and space.
>From the point of view of the jiva, there is ignorance
about his true nature which is none other than
Brahman.
Like any other ignorance this did not commence at a
particular point in time.
Time itself(the concept of it) is a product of the
very same ignorance.
Even in ordinary terms when i say i have ignorance of
"russian", the ignorance is a beginingless ignorance.
If i knew Russian then i cant get ignorant about it at
some point in time.
There is no "entity" that "develops" ignorance at some
point in time.
The Universe is better thought of in terms of being a
manifestation than a creation in that sense.
The Universe is time stretched out across space. In
reality there is nothing being created nor anything
being destroyed.
What is potential becomes manifest only to become
latent.
Brahman alone is.
So ignorance is beginingless and hence alone jivas are
beginingless. 

But ignorance, while it is beginingless, does
fortunately have an end.
And the end is with the dawn of knowledge.
A jiva's ignorance about his true nature disapperas as
soon as the right knowledge dawns.

So jiva and Brahman are One.
The jiva owes his "existence" to a notion of being
separate from Brahman.
This notion is due to (beginingless) ignorance.
This notion will end when knowledge dawns.

Trust this clarifies.

Hari OM
Shri Gurubhyo namah
Shyam
--- Kris Manian <krismanian at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks. But I have difficulty understand this, even
> an endless loop has
> a beginning, right?
> There must always be a first time for anything, no?
> If we take your arguement then, looks like Jiva and
> brahman are two
> separate entities and has been
> in existance for ever and will continue that way for
> ever.
> 
> Pranam
> Kris
> 
> Krishnamurthy Ramakrishna wrote:
> > Kris Manian ji;
> > namaste. 
> > There is no first time jagat is created.
> > The jagat has been in existence from anAdi -
> beginningless time.
> > The current creation is to fulfill the karma of
> the previous creation;
> > the previous creation to fulfill the karma of its
> previous creation
> > and so on..... from beginningless time. If there
> was no karma of jIvas,
> > at any time, why is there a need to create the
> jagat for no jIva has to
> > experience the fruits of their karma. An analogy
> is - what is the beginning
> > point of a circle?
> > Regards,
> > K. Ramakrishna.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kris Manian [mailto:krismanian at gmail.com] 
> > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 1:46 PM
> > To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> > Cc: puttakrishna at verizon.net
> > Subject: RE: Advaita vEdAnta - Unit (11)
> >
> > Thanks Krishnamurthy ji. I have more questions.
> >   
> >>> Objection 6 - Brahman is Partial and Cruel
> >>>       
> >>   
> >>     
> >
> >   
> >>> There is wide range of differences in the
> creation of jagat. There are
> >>>       
> > some
> >   
> >>> who are very happy. Some of the animals undergo
> immense hardship and
> >>> distress. Some others would have a mix of
> happiness and sorrow. So is
> >>> Brahman partial? In addition, at the time of
> dissolution, all jIvas
> >>> experience extreme distress. So is Brahman very
> cruel? If so, Brahman
> >>>       
> > cannot
> >   
> >>> be the kAraNa for jagat!
> >>>       
> >>   
> >>     
> >
> >   
> >>> vEdAntin: The jagat creation with differences in
> the happiness among
> >>>       
> > jIvas
> >   
> >>> is organized according to their karma. The
> variations, in the level of
> >>> happiness among jIvas, is a result of their own
> making. Brahman is not
> >>> responsible for this (In business life also,
> every one is rewarded
> >>>       
> > according
> >   
> >>> to their contributions!). The cause of
> dissolution is the aggregate karma
> >>>       
> > of
> >   
> >>> jIvas. So this objection of Brahman's partiality
> or cruelty is not
> >>>       
> > accurate.
> >   
> >>   
> >>     
> >
> >  Let us take the very first time the Jagat was
> created, when there was no
> > karma
> > at all for Jivas. At that time how many humans and
> creatures would have been
> > born?
> > Probably one of whatever species Brhman wanted,
> right? (Most probably no
> > animals, birds, insects etc as they are considered
> lower forms to human and
> > only are
> > born due to human's bad karma) Because there was
> no cause for
> > a vast number of species or vast number of humans
> as there was no karma to
> > start with. 
> > There would have been no sorrow, no pain and only
> all bliss, probably like
> > the Garden of Eden? 
> > So what do you think started off this chain of
> Karma and the world as we see
> > it now? 
> >
> > Pranam
> > Kris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> 
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