[Advaita-l] Re : Karma and Reincarnation (Chandrashekar)
Rammohan, Chandrashekar
Chandrashekar.Rammohan at Arbella.com
Thu Jul 13 15:03:15 CDT 2006
Dear Sri SadanandaJi,
Pranaams,
While you have categorized the 4 varnas based on the Gunas, I have a doubt
regarding other combination of Vasanas.
How will you categorise a person who is predominantly with only Rajasic
Vasanas.
How will you categorise a person who is a combination of Satvic and Tamasic
Vasanas.
Will there be some people who belong to this category also. ?
Regds
Chandrashekar
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Today's Topics:
1. Karma and Reincarnation (Sridhar Babu)
2. karma kanda (S.N. Sastri)
3. Re: What can we do? (Taina Kilpiainen)
4. A humble request (S.N. Sastri)
5. Re: A humble request (Anbu sivam2)
6. Understanding (Viswanathan N)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 07:24:24 +0530 (IST)
From: "Sridhar Babu" <sridhar at amritapuri.amrita.edu>
Subject: [Advaita-l] Karma and Reincarnation
To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
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|| Aum Sri Gurubhyo Namah ||
|| Hari: Aum ||
Aum Namah Sivaya Advaitins
These two question and answer messages were truly giving light on the Karma
and Reincarnation which is, of course, the most intricate noose from which
only Sathguru can help released.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:30:49 -0700 (PDT)
> From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Karma and Reincarnation - Birth as a Brahmin
> Padmaji - My PraNAms.
>
> First Vedanta does not endorse any accidents in life. All are
> incidences, the causes for which could be unseen or adRiShTa, for us
> with limited vision.
>
> The law of karma is impartial and operates until jiiva realizes his
> true state. Death is not the end of the life and birth is not the
> beginning of the life either. The law of cause and effect is valid
> from birth to death and therefore does not just disappear before birth
> or after death. Hence Vedanta says your birth is the result of your
> past actions. We are borne in a particular family, as male or female,
> in an environment dictated by our purva janma vaasanas.
>
> If we have sAtvic vasanas we will be borne in an environment for the
> further evolution of these. A Brahman is one who has predominately
> sAtvic vasanas - not just the one who is born in Brahman's parents.
>
> A xatriya is one who has predominately rajasic with sAtvic vAsanas as
> second.
>
> A Vaisya is one with rajasic and tamasic vasanas.
>
> And a Sudra is one with predominately tamasic vasanas.
>
> These are mental make up of individuals - hence based on guNa which
> then propels one to act according to his guNa his actions (karma)
> differs. This is the basis for classification of mental makeup. This
> is extensively discussed in Vajrasuchi Upanishad.
>
> This classification is universal - and applies to all human beings who
> have mind and intellect to feel and to think.
>
> This classification is intended not to judge others, whether the other
> is Brahman or Sudra but to judge oneself to see what type of shadhana
> would help for one to progress.
>
> Marrying another that is compatible with one's vAsanas would help, but
> that is not guaranteed!
>
> Hence classification is not by birth.
>
> Although the birth in a given environment would help to evolve the
> particular guNas and therefore one's birth can be dictated by previous
> vasanas.
>
> Krishna answers to Arjuna question in Ch. 6 - what happens to the one
> who is on his way to evolution and dies suddenly? Krishna answers
> that he will be born in the next life in an environment that is
> conducive for his rapid growth. Hence nothing will be lost.
>
> Castes are developed latter on the basis of birth - but that is only
> secondary compared to the evolution of the mind and intellect. As one
> evolves and developed saatvik vasanas and tunes his mind to Brahman,
> he becomes Brahmana by guNa and karma.
>
> Hope this answers your question.
>
>
> Hari OM!
> Sadananda
>> --- Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Sri Sadananda,
>>
>> My wife has the following question. Could you pl. help her.
>>
>> Pranaams,
>> Anbu
>>
>> Dear Sri Sadananda,
>>
>> Many Pranaams to you. I was reading a discussion thread in
>> Kanchiforum.orgin which a person is saying that there is no
>> scriptural proof (either in Sruthi or Smrithi) to the effect that
>> poorva punya causes a person to be
>> born as a Brahmana or a Kshathriya or a Vaisya or Sudhra. Even though
>> it
>> was pointed that if it was not the case of a person's birth in a
>> particular
>> varna would be an accident and not caused (by poorva punya). Such
>> accidents
>> are impermissible in the theory of cause and effect that constitute
>> Karma
>> and reincarnation. However that gentleman seem to be insisting on
>> proof
>> from the scriptures. The only person with a ocean of knowledge that I
>> could
>> turn to is you. Could you please help me.
>>
>> Pranaams again,
>> Padma
>> _______________________________________________
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*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.
Sri Paada Sevayam
sridhar
|| Om Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavanthu ||
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:39:19 +0530
From: "S.N. Sastri" <sn.sastri at gmail.com>
Subject: [Advaita-l] karma kanda
To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
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"s v a" <a_satish03 at rediffmail.com>
wrote on July 12, 2006:
I also think, the Madhwa & other who call Shankara , buddha in
disguise, is bcoz, Buddha like Shankara alwayas rejected, Karmakanda &
Upalabdhivad, which Mimansakas & their hidden followers like MAdhwa &
Ramanuja stand out for.
--------------
Far from rejecting karma kanda, Sri Sankara stresses the need for the
performance of rituals till one attains total purity of mind and becomes fit
for the dawn of self-knowledge. The following are a few instances from his
BhAshya:
*Br.up.4.4.22. BhAshya (S.B)-- The words 'study of the Vedas, sacrifices,
charity and austerity' refer to all obligatory rites (nitya karma). Thus all
the obligatory rites (that is all those other than kAmya karma) serve as
means to liberation through the attainment of Self-knowledge. Hence we see
that the ultimate purpose of the two parts of the Vedas, that dealing with
rites and that dealing with Self-knowledge, is the same, (namely
liberation). *
taitt.up.1.11.S.B-The Vedic rites help in the attainment of Self-knowledge
by eradicating the accumulated sins.
taitt.up.1.11.S.B---- For the attainment of Self-knowledge, the *nitya karma
*becomes the means only by eradicating the obstruction in the form of
accumulated sins.
Br.up.4.5.15.S.B-- We have said that rites are for the unenlightened. As
long as there is ignorance of the Self, there is need for the performance of
rites which are intended to produce, attain, modify or purify. (These are
the four kinds of results produced by action). Rites are the means to
Self-knowledge through the purification of the mind.
taitt.up.1.11.S.B--- The rites laid down have to be performed for the
attainment of Self- knowledge (because they purify the mind and make it fit
for the rise of knowledge).
Sri Sankara further points out that there is no demarcation of rites as
'kAmya' or 'obligatory (nitya) in the Vedas themselves. He says in
Br.up.1.3.1.S.B--- As the rites with material ends (*kAmya karma), *such as
the new and full moon sacrifices, are enjoined on one who desires to attain
heaven, etc, so are the regular and obligatory rites (*nitya *and
*naimittika
karma)* on one who has the root of all evils, namely ignorance, and the
consequent defects of attachment and aversion, manifesting themselves as the
quest for what is pleasant and avoidance of the unpleasant. Rites such as
*agnihotra, chAturmAsya, paSubandha *and *somayAga *are not intrinsically
either rites with material ends (*kAmya) *or obligatory rites (*nitya).*They
come under the former category only when they are performed with desire for
results such as heaven. (The same rites can also be performed without desire
for the result, in which case they become *nishkAma karma *and have the
effect of purifying the mind and making it fit for Self-knowledge). No rites
are enjoined in the scriptures for one who has realized the true nature of
the Self. Self-knowledge arises only on the obliteration of the very cause
of rites. One who has realized that he is Brahman has no obligation to
perform even the obligatory rites.
Sri Sankara of course stresses that liberation results from knowledge
alone. Karma is the remote means because it is necessary for purification of
the mind.
S.N.Sastri
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 01:34:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Taina Kilpiainen <tutteli at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] What can we do?
To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
Message-ID: <20060713083401.82138.qmail at web50708.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Why this world is so bad? There is much more badness
than goodness and bad people have much better luck
than good people.
This reflect all things in this world and
terrorattacks are only visible top in these badness
which have in everything.
Is it for Kali yuga time the world is thiskind extreme
bad in novadays? We can look backward; How nazies
destroyed people in concentration camps and they
succeed in this very good and Hitler succeed to
survive from attendats against him.
Big global business companies wrenchs people in
developed countries etc and etc.
This was rather pessimist statement but I have found
it everywhere, in all.
Of course I think this is also karmic thing. But
however it feel so sad when goodness is so difficult
to find from novaday's world.
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:26:04 +0530
From: "S.N. Sastri" <sn.sastri at gmail.com>
Subject: [Advaita-l] A humble request
To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
Message-ID:
<7b890d4a0607130356h48902f63l3b95ef95cbc193c at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
A humble request to members.
I live in Chennai. I have not been able to access my website
http://www.geocities.com/snsastri for the past ten days. Others in Chennai
are also not able to access any of the free geocities sites. But people in
USA are able to reach my site. I shall be very grateful if any of the
members living in any part of India could kindly let me know whether he/she
is able to reach my site or any other geocities website. If any member has
any idea about the reason for these sites not being accessible to people in
some places alone, such as Chennai, I shall be highly oliged for that
information.
S.N.Sastri
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:30:10 -0500
From: "Anbu sivam2" <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A humble request
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Message-ID:
<f65008470607130630p7bee7790q33ce5a30f9dfee02 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Dear Sri Sastriji,
I was able to access your website. I don't know why you couldn't.
Regards,
Anbu
On 7/13/06, S.N. Sastri <sn.sastri at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A humble request to members.
>
> I live in Chennai. I have not been able to access my website
> http://www.geocities.com/snsastri for the past ten days. Others in
> Chennai are also not able to access any of the free geocities sites.
> But people in USA are able to reach my site. I shall be very grateful
> if any of the members living in any part of India could kindly let me
> know whether he/she is able to reach my site or any other geocities
> website. If any member has any idea about the reason for these sites
> not being accessible to people in
> some places alone, such as Chennai, I shall be highly oliged for that
> information.
>
> S.N.Sastri
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>
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>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:08:40 +0100 (BST)
From: Viswanathan N <vishy1962 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Advaita-l] Understanding
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Message-ID: <20060713070840.24929.qmail at web33815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Shri Sadanandaji /Sastriji and all learned
I am not all that learned in scriptures or in the sanskrit itself to quote
anything.
But Let me put my understanding of ' Truth' in layman' s language:
All living /why everything in this existence are containers(c) and the
life inside is the Content (C). The Content all over everywhere is one and
same and the containers create the illusion of being different. Now let me
put it in this way, atleast for humans:
C = is the 'Brahman' and othe c = combination of body/mind/intellect and
ego
C is formless and has never born or ever die...it existed exist and
exisit for ever where as the other c having form keeps changing forms which
we call birth/death.
Vast majority of all keep their conciousness centered on c and that why
all birth/death, pleasure/pain, love/hate dualities. Once you shift your
identity /conciousness from c to C...you have reached teh home....YOU become
That. (call this shift Moksha/Nirvana whatever....)
This is what I understood as ' Advaita'....for making this shift happen
first you have to gain the knowledge (Jnana) and keep contemplating
(Meditattion/ Dhyana)on that..and than keep performing your duty to complete
the obligations to the various elements of the society untill this body
lasts (Karma yoga).
So, I wonder why this Rituals/ Ritualistic practices....The purpose of
Karmakhanda????
Pl correct me and guide me , if I am wrong
Pranams
Viswanath
"S.N. Sastri" <sn.sastri at gmail.com> wrote:
"s v a"
wrote on July 12, 2006:
I also think, the Madhwa & other who call Shankara , buddha in disguise, is
bcoz, Buddha like Shankara alwayas rejected, Karmakanda & Upalabdhivad,
which Mimansakas & their hidden followers like MAdhwa & Ramanuja stand out
for.
--------------
Far from rejecting karma kanda, Sri Sankara stresses the need for the
performance of rituals till one attains total purity of mind and becomes fit
for the dawn of self-knowledge. The following are a few instances from his
BhAshya:
*Br.up.4.4.22. BhAshya (S.B)-- The words 'study of the Vedas, sacrifices,
charity and austerity' refer to all obligatory rites (nitya karma). Thus all
the obligatory rites (that is all those other than kAmya karma) serve as
means to liberation through the attainment of Self-knowledge. Hence we see
that the ultimate purpose of the two parts of the Vedas, that dealing with
rites and that dealing with Self-knowledge, is the same, (namely
liberation). *
taitt.up.1.11.S.B-The Vedic rites help in the attainment of Self-knowledge
by eradicating the accumulated sins.
taitt.up.1.11.S.B---- For the attainment of Self-knowledge, the *nitya karma
*becomes the means only by eradicating the obstruction in the form of
accumulated sins.
Br.up.4.5.15.S.B-- We have said that rites are for the unenlightened. As
long as there is ignorance of the Self, there is need for the performance of
rites which are intended to produce, attain, modify or purify. (These are
the four kinds of results produced by action). Rites are the means to
Self-knowledge through the purification of the mind.
taitt.up.1.11.S.B--- The rites laid down have to be performed for the
attainment of Self- knowledge (because they purify the mind and make it fit
for the rise of knowledge).
Sri Sankara further points out that there is no demarcation of rites as
'kAmya' or 'obligatory (nitya) in the Vedas themselves. He says in
Br.up.1.3.1.S.B--- As the rites with material ends (*kAmya karma), *such as
the new and full moon sacrifices, are enjoined on one who desires to attain
heaven, etc, so are the regular and obligatory rites (*nitya *and
*naimittika
karma)* on one who has the root of all evils, namely ignorance, and the
consequent defects of attachment and aversion, manifesting themselves as the
quest for what is pleasant and avoidance of the unpleasant. Rites such as
*agnihotra, chAturmAsya, paSubandha *and *somayAga *are not intrinsically
either rites with material ends (*kAmya) *or obligatory rites (*nitya).*They
come under the former category only when they are performed with desire for
results such as heaven. (The same rites can also be performed without desire
for the result, in which case they become *nishkAma karma *and have the
effect of purifying the mind and making it fit for Self-knowledge). No rites
are enjoined in the scriptures for one who has realized the true nature of
the Self. Self-knowledge arises only on the obliteration of the very cause
of rites. One who has realized that he is Brahman has no obligation to
perform even the obligatory rites.
Sri Sankara of course stresses that liberation results from knowledge alone.
Karma is the remote means because it is necessary for purification of the
mind.
S.N.Sastri
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