[Advaita-l] Logic and shastra

[praveen.r.bhat at exgate.tek.com]

praNAm all,

(Mahesh-ji, thanks for linking me to the poem that I used to love in my
childhood, wishes, prayers and blessings. I can only hope to live up to
those; thanks to the great personalities on this list and many who've helped
me to this decision as a first step)

Mahesh-ji wrote:
If Brahman is all there is then one can never claim "I am a realized person"
since the person and realization become different. 

praveen:
I do not know if realized person claims so. If one did, it is only a phrase
to convey the message so to the unrealized, who thinks so in his/her BMI
complex under the veil of ignorance. Ramana, Nisargadatta, all said that
realization is when this avidyaa is not left anymore, and one knows it to be
not real, so that one knows that one is brahmaN and always was so. Thats
where the time has no meaning either, to say that "I am realized *now*" and
the multiplicity of individual souls/BMIs no longer exists.

One a separate note...


Mahesh-ji wrote:
One can say that there is no ego of a realized person and s/he is using the
word "I" merely to indicate his/her physical body as a reference. But I
still find that rather curious since the person does, for example,
experience pain. If there is no ego then why did Sri Ramakrishna tell the
doctor that in his elevated states of consciousness, he felt more pain in
his throat? Why did the doctor then advise him to refrain from going into
samadhi? Who was feeling the pain? The BMI? But the realized person should
be completely disassoicated from his/her BMI so why is there "feeling" at
all? If there is only all pervading consciuosness with no other entity, why
is there still some linking with the BMI?

praveen:
May I humbly point you to Nisargadatta Maharaj again? He was asked about a
similar question regarding how he would react if he was attacked by someone.
Maharaj said that he really wouldn't have anything to do there, but people
around him may see him reacting in a manner appropriate then. The body may
jump or even fight back, or something to that effect. This question you pose
is quite similar to whether the prarabdhaa acts on a jivanmukta and
Shankara's answer is that it does not, but only the bystanders see the
jivanmukta in the body suffering/enjoying the prarabdhaa. In fact, your own
question has the answer when you say: "But the realized person should be
completely disassoicated from his/her BMI so why is there "feeling" at
all?". The realized person doesn't have these feelings, the BMI as a part of
prakriti seems acting for the unrealized.

(Again, if you meant to say that paramhamsa shouldn't have complained to the
doctor in the first place, then even a question prior to that should've
been: why would a realized be hungry to eat also? In which case, the answer
would still remain the same as what I mention earlier. I'm sure you've read
that there were times in Ramakrishna's samaadhi when people (the temple
manager if I remember right) even kicked and forcibly fed the master to get
him to be in the body)

shivam shaantam advaitam,
--praveen