[Advaita-l] Re: Advaita-l Digest, Vol 9, Issue 20
drganesh at vsnl.com
drganesh at vsnl.com
Sun Jan 25 10:52:29 CST 2004
I am writing this as a continuation of the present discussion on mukthi. Geetha is a smrithy grantha and whenever doubts arise on slokas of different chapters which may appear contradictory ,we then generally fall back on the sruthi which is the very foundation of all our scriptures. Upanisads are the backbone of geetha.
The apparent differences in the meaning of slokas seen at various places are only because the very same topic is talked from two different angles. Both view points are correct from their respective standpoints.
When we talk of mukthi or ‘absolute freedom’ there are three terms generally used- Jeevan mukthi, videha mukthi and krama mukthi. All these differences are only from an agnani or a seeker’s point of view. From a gnani’s angle, once he has realized his swaroopam , has owned up his true status , identified himself with the adishtanam or substratum of all, then from that Brahman’s or infinity stand point there are no differences at all. Hence krama mukthi etc are talked about from ahankara or chidabasa’s angle and from chith’s or consciousness own stand point there can be no bondage or freedom as atma is ever free. Hence from a true advaitic stand point, mukthi can be defined as ‘dropping the notion that I am bound’ because the problem is only an adyasa. Infinity was free, is free and will ever be free and trying to reach it as an event or in a particular state of mind as in samadhi etc is not correct as I can never be away from infinity at any time.
----- Original Message -----
From: advaita-l-request at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
Date: Friday, January 23, 2004 10:30 pm
Subject: Advaita-l Digest, Vol 9, Issue 20
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Puraanas, Vedas, Sankaracarya, Manavadharmasastra etc
> (tainakristina at jippii.fi)
> 2. re 8/24 (Ramesh Badisa)
> 3. Re: Puraanas, Vedas, Sankaracarya, Manavadharmasastra etc
> (Sanjay Verma)
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:01:21 +0200 (EET)
> From: tainakristina at jippii.fi
> Subject: [Advaita-l] Puraanas, Vedas, Sankaracarya, Manavadharmasastra
> etc
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Message-ID: <31244770.1074790881248.JavaMail.tainakristina at jippii.fi>
> Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=iso-8859-15; Format=Flowed
>
>
>
> Dear group-members,
>
> I am very interested about ancient scriptures, I borrowed one book
> in
> which have been published "little pieces" of scriptures. In this
> short
> indroduction was also list of different scriptures:
>
> Forexample: Puranas: Brahma, Padma, Visnu, Siva Bhagavata, Narata;
> Markandeya, Agni, Bhavisyat, Brahmavaivarta etc
> Veda-books
>
> Devi Mahatmya
> Yogabhasya
> Manavadharmasastra (Manu)
> Vedanta
> Rishi Patanjali yoga-sutras
> Sankara (Sankaracarya) Astavakragiita (JANAKA)
> Brahmasutra
> advaita-vedanta
> Upanisad
>
> So in this book which I read was only little pieces of stories and
> when
> read these I was fully fascinated.
>
> I really wanted to know some links from which I could get these
> teachings completely, buy books or download some from web pages.
>
> with best regards
>
> Taina
>
> __
> Ota itsellesi luotettava kotimainen email http://www.jippii.fi/
> Tutustu samalla netin parhaaseen pelipaikkaan JIPPIIGAMESIIN.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:32:14 -0500
> From: "Ramesh Badisa" <badisa55 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [Advaita-l] re 8/24
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Message-ID: <BAY1-F157Tr8gclDyGz000024ad at hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> Namaste.
>
> I have the following opinion about 8/24, and the apparent clash.
> There is no
> clash in the Gita slokas, as we all know. Therefore the term,
> 'apparent
> clash' is mentioned here.
>
> A person who has divine knowledge (brahma gyan) will attain sadyo
> mukti
> (immediate salvation), attaining divine at once.
>
> Other spiritual sadhakas who are able to annihilate the karma to
> zero by
> following niskama karma, bhakti etc methods, if they die before
> attaining
> divine experience, then they will tread 8/24 path. This is called
> graduall
> salvation path or path of krama mukti. These sadhakas do not born
> again in
> the mundane world. Because their karma is zero. But they also can
> not attain
> the divine immediately by sadhyo mukti as they died before
> achieving divine
> experience. Thererfore, the souls of these sadhakas will tread
> 8/24 krama
> mukti path (gradual salvation). As you all know, the various terms
> in 8/24,
> like agni, jyoti, etc, are nothing but the names of various
> presiding
> deities in the path (according to Sri Shankara and Ramanuja). The
> final
> deity/god in this path is Lord Brahma. As he is not an absolute
> divine, we
> are not concerned here to know if he is a chatur muk brahma or
> some other
> brahma. After reaching this abode, the above souls will get a
> final li
> beration teaching from Lord Brahma. Mere getting this knowledge
> may not help
> attaining of divine for final salvation. Therefore, these souls
> have to
> experience their oneness with divine by meditation (this is my
> belief). When
> the final pralaya comes, these souls, along with the ruler of this
> abode,
> will attain the divine (Brahma sutras [4th chapter], Chandogya
> Upanishad,
> Mundaka Upanishad). This is absolute salvation. Upto this, every
> body knows.
>
> But we have in 8/16, Lord Krishna saying that attainment upto
> Brahma Lok is
> subjected to return to mundane world. According to this rule, the
> above
> souls at Brahma Lok should also return to the earth or else where
> in some
> form. This is the apparent clash. I understood it in the following
> way:
> There are many different types of people who aim various lokas
> for the
> purpose of heavenly enjoyments. These people, when on earth, do
> not attempt
> to know who they are, and what relation do they have with divine.
> They
> simply assume by defalut that all humans have to born invariably
> every time
> forever. Therefore, they think that if they had to die and born
> again and
> again, why not to go to heavens and enjoy and come back. For this
> purpose,
> they do various karmic activities with the sense of doer ship,
> without
> knowing the real intensions of such activities. As all humans are
> not same
> with respective to karmic loads on them, it is natural that their
> tendencies
> differ a lot. Hence they worship various deities to reach heavens
> or some
> materialistic gains. It is also said in Gita 9/25, that those who
> worship
> various deities, petrus or ghost, will attain their respective
> lokas
> temperarily. On the same reason, those, who worship gods of higher
> caliber,
> like Lord Brahma (in their view chaturmuk brahma, or some other
> god), they
> will go to Brahma Lok. It is important to know, that aiming to
> various lokas
> does not mean that the souls will visit one loka and then go to
> another
> loka. They will only go to one loka. Which soul will go to which
> loka will
> depend upon the total temperaments, arising out of their
> activities and
> their aiming. At any rate, these souls after a while at these
> lokas, will
> return to the mundane world.
>
> Now, see the souls of spritual sadhakas (with out divine
> knowledge) are at
> Brahma lok. Similarly, the souls of materistic gains or heavenly
> enjoyments
> are also at Brahma lok (and elsewhere also). Then, how to
> differenciate
> them, and impart the final liberation teaching at Brahma Lok? It
> is the
> "intension" of the souls which differenciates them. For example, a
> person
> while on earth, did lot of niskama karma etc. His purpose is not
> for any
> worldly gains, but to attain divine. Thus, to know the intensions,
> at one
> point, the deity will ask the souls who they are and what they want.
>
> Those souls (from enjoying type people) fail to answer for
> salvation, will
> stay there for a while, and return. On the other hand, the souls
> of
> spiritual sadhakas will give the correct answer, and hence will
> get the
> final liberation teaching for divine realization. The bottom line
> is that it
> is the intension that makes all the difference. The Gita sloka
> 8/16 applies
> to the souls of enjoying type even at Brahma Lok. This sloka does
> not apply
> to souls of spiritual sadhakas. Hence there is no clash at all. I
> am open
> for constructive criticism.
>
> Namaste
>
> Babu
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful
> tips here.
> http://special.msn.com/bcentral/prep04.armx
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:31:39 -0800 (PST)
> From: Sanjay Verma <sanjay1297 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Puraanas, Vedas, Sankaracarya,
> Manavadharmasastra etc
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Message-ID: <20040123013139.77623.qmail at web10002.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Namaste,
>
> Here are some links that might get you started:
>
> http://www.brahmasutra.iitk.ac.in/
>
> http://www.vmission.org/vedanta/shastras/bsutras.htm
>
> http://www.gitasupersite.iitk.ac.in/
>
> http://sanskrit.bhaarat.com/Dale/
>
> http://hinduwebsite.com/hinduscriptlinks.htm
>
> http://groups.msn.com/SpiritualLibrary/bhajagovindamverses.msnw
>
> http://www.sriramakrishnamath.org/books/elist.asp?ProductType=MA11
>
> http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/index.html
>
> http://www.valmikiramayan.net/
>
> http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/bs_00.html
>
>
>
> There are many more sites, but this should get you off to a good
> start!!
> Om Shanti Shanti Shanti
> Sanjay
>
> tainakristina at jippii.fi wrote:
>
>
> Dear group-members,
>
> I am very interested about ancient scriptures, I borrowed one book
> in
> which have been published "little pieces" of scriptures. In this
> short
> indroduction was also list of different scriptures:
>
> Forexample: Puranas: Brahma, Padma, Visnu, Siva Bhagavata, Narata;
> Markandeya, Agni, Bhavisyat, Brahmavaivarta etc
> Veda-books
>
> Devi Mahatmya
> Yogabhasya
> Manavadharmasastra (Manu)
> Vedanta
> Rishi Patanjali yoga-sutras
> Sankara (Sankaracarya) Astavakragiita (JANAKA)
> Brahmasutra
> advaita-vedanta
> Upanisad
>
> So in this book which I read was only little pieces of stories and
> when
> read these I was fully fascinated.
>
> I really wanted to know some links from which I could get these
> teachings completely, buy books or download some from web pages.
>
> with best regards
>
> Taina
>
> __
> Ota itsellesi luotettava kotimainen email http://www.jippii.fi/
> Tutustu samalla netin parhaaseen pelipaikkaan JIPPIIGAMESIIN.
>
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