Antiquity of Advaita Vedanta (was Re: An Open Letter to All)

[Vishal Agarwal]

Thank you for the clarification. However, I feel that Dvaita was prevelant
before Bhagvatpada, just as Advaita was. Bhagvatpada, in his Bhashya on BS
1.3.19 himself states that "some amongst ourselves seem to hold that the
Jivas are real as such" (paraphrase from memory). The Bhagvata and the
Pancharatra sects before Bhagvatpada too held that Bhakti can lead to
salvation.
-VA
----Original Message Follows----
From: nanda chandran <vpcnk at HOTMAIL.COM>
Reply-To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
<ADVAITA-L at braincells.com>
To: ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG
Subject: Antiquity of Advaita Vedanta (was Re: An Open Letter to All)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 06:41:30 PDT

>Jnana/Bhakti (which is defined
>in a particular manner in the works of Sri Ramanuja like the
>Vedarthasamgraha, the Shri Bhashya) is still the means of Salvation.

Vishal, the distinction that I made between Advaita and other schools of
VedAnta is not one of karma Vs jnAna, but bhakti Vs jnAna.

JnAna mArga implicitly accepts mans own ability to find the reality by
himself and within himself. This is the basis of Advaita where there is no
other apart from oneself to worship or seek refuge in. One knows one's own
Self to be the Absolute.

While in bhakti the sAdhaka seeks refuge in the power of Ishwara to liberate
him from samsAra. Here there's an other to seek refuge in and worship and
the implicit denial of man's own power to liberate himself.



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>From  Sun May 21 09:01:40 2000
Message-Id: <SUN.21.MAY.2000.090140.0700.>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 09:01:40 -0700
Reply-To: anandn at myworldmail.com
To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
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From: Anand Natarajan <anandn at MYWORLDMAIL.COM>
Organization: MyWorldMail  (http://www.myworldmail.com:80)
Subject: Re: Maya and Advaita
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Regarding the concept of Maya, there is a clear description given in Day  by Day with Bhagavan .I quote it here.

A devotee by name Bose asked the question , "When the Upanishads say that all is Brahman, Can we like Adi Shankara say the world is illusory ?"

Sri Ramana Maharshi replies,
Bhagavan: Shankara also said that this world is Brahman or the Self.What he objected to is ones's imagining that the Self is limited by the names and forms that constitute the world.

Bhagavan quotes the following six questions and answers from Kaivalya Navaneeta.
Q. What is Maya.
A. It is Anirvachaniya or indescribable.

Q. To Whom does it come ?
A. To the mind or ego who fees that he is a separate entity , who thinks "I do this" or "this is mine ".

Q. Where does it come from and how did it originate ?
A. Nobody can say.

Q. How did it arise ?
A. Through Non-Vichara , through failure to ask "Who am I "?

Q. If the Self and maya both exist, does this not invalidate the theory of Advaita ?
A. It need not, since maya is dependent on the Self as the picture on the screen. The picture is not real in the sense that the screen is real.

Q. If Self and maya are one could it not be argued that the Self is illusory ?
A. No. The Self can be capable of producing illusion without being illusory. A conjuror may create for our entertainment the illusion of people, animals and things and we see all of them as clearly as we see him. After the performance he only remains and all the visions he created have all dissappeared. He is not a part of the illusion but is real and solid.


Anand



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>From  Sun May 21 09:06:11 2000
Message-Id: <SUN.21.MAY.2000.090611.0700.>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 09:06:11 -0700
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From: Anand Natarajan <anandn at MYWORLDMAIL.COM>
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Subject: Re: Antiquity of Advaita Vedanta (was Re: An Open Letter to All)
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Om,

Jnana marga will enable man to see reality within oneself. That does not mean that he can do it by his own ability or self-effort. All margas whether they be Bhakthi, Karma or Jnana lead to surrender and only then will come realization. The bhaktha surrenders to some deity and the Jnani surrenders to the Self. That is the only difference. On realization the deity and the Self become the same.

Anand

>JnAna mArga implicitly accepts mans own ability to find the reality by
>himself and within himself.


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>From  Sun May 21 18:53:55 2000
Message-Id: <SUN.21.MAY.2000.185355.0130.>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 18:53:55 +0130
Reply-To: c.glen at angelfire.com
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From: Glen calleja <c.glen at ANGELFIRE.COM>
Organization: Angelfire  (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80)
Subject: authority as 'other' and creation
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Dearest Nanda Chandran,

I beg to differ about the 'other' you referred to in regard of the bhakti marga.  The 'other' we might trace in bhakti is the authority of tradition. One experiences this 'other' through 'information' and with humble respect.

If one is humbly 'devoted' in true discipline to any marga or Vedantic interpretation I suppose a previous acknowledgement of such authority is necessary.

I feel that humility and compassion themselves (both strongly underlined in Vedanta) dissolve any possible placement of oneSelf with or without an other.

Allow me to differ a second time - I feel there is no real argument about one freeing/liberating oneSelf if we keep in mind our Reality without thinking istead that we are this or that human being, this or that limited creature....Somehow I think that the Buddha's uncommitment to existential questions, in silence, suffices as wise advise to whenever we get concerned with creation which after all is a conceptual 'other' but unreal.   Why waste so much energy on it?

glen
--

On Sun, 21 May 2000 06:41:30   nanda chandran wrote:
>>Jnana/Bhakti (which is defined
>>in a particular manner in the works of Sri Ramanuja like the
>>Vedarthasamgraha, the Shri Bhashya) is still the means of Salvation.
>
>Vishal, the distinction that I made between Advaita and other schools of
>VedAnta is not one of karma Vs jnAna, but bhakti Vs jnAna.
>
>JnAna mArga implicitly accepts mans own ability to find the reality by
>himself and within himself. This is the basis of Advaita where there is no
>other apart from oneself to worship or seek refuge in. One knows one's own
>Self to be the Absolute.
>
>While in bhakti the sAdhaka seeks refuge in the power of Ishwara to liberate
>him from samsAra. Here there's an other to seek refuge in and worship and
>the implicit denial of man's own power to liberate himself.
>
>
>
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>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
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>bhava shankara deshikame sharaNam
>
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>


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