Please Help her (fwd)

[Deven Shah]

> > >
> > > Please help her.
> > >
> > > >From Divya Singh :
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > "This is important to me...so I am asking you to please forward it.
> > > Please send to all contacts.  If anyone you know has  survived non
> > small
> > > cell lung cancer PLEASE, PLEASE contact me at e-mail worth at vonl.com
> > > <mailto:worth at vonl.com  or ICQ 9537256. My husband has it and I
> > would
> > > like to know what treatment was used.  Please forward to everyone on
> > > your contact list. From the bottom of my heart I thank you.
> > > Thank you,
> > > Divya Singh
> > >
> > > Please Contact here :
> > >   SIEMENS             Siemens Information System Limited
> > >                                 #84,Keonics Electronics  City
> > >                                 Hosur Road,Bangalore-561229
> > >                                 India
> > >   Divya Singh                           divya.singh at blr.sni.de
> > > <mailto:divya.singh at blr.sni.de
> > > Tel.+91-80-8521122(10 lines)



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>From  Tue Jul 14 22:22:34 1998
Message-Id: <TUE.14.JUL.1998.222234.0400.>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:22:34 -0400
Reply-To: ramakris at erols.com
To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
        <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
From: Ramakrishnan Balasubramanian <ramakris at EROLS.COM>
Subject: Re: pUja
Comments: To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
        <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
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Vaidya N. Sundaram wrote:

> > The above is quite irrelevant in my opinion.
>
>  I fail to see their lack of relevance. Surely you do not assume that you
> know how important it is to purify your place of worship and so make do
> with just a sweep of your vacuum cleaner, or even just mopping with a wet
> cloth.
>  For as the example I quoted makes it abundantly clear that proper
> cleaning of the place of worship is of supreme relevance. And the Ramayana
> also explains how it is that a place of worship is to be purified.
>  Surely you do not assume that milk from out a carton is the same as
> Go-ksheram (pasu-m paal in Tamil).

Then clean the place before worshiping there! It's that simple!! It's
rather obvious, IMO. How does that contradict what I said about
following rules? If you did not know about the rule, it's your fault and
not the persons who discovered/established the rules.

>  Kindly explain to me how they become irrelevant. I am willing to learn.

Pl. see above.

>  On the contrary, performance of a karma, has implicit in it, an effort.
> Laziness is not the point here. Effort to perform has already been made.
> And performing means, you know something of how it is to be performed. Do
> you start? or do you wait till you are sure?

Yes, one should make the effort of going to a pundit, reading a few
books and making sure before doing pUjA-s. Please read my post before
engaging in tarka. I CLEARLY mentioned that when the person already
KNOWS that 100% effort has NOT been made, ignorance is no excuse. If you
truly feel you have made 100% effort already, go ahead!

>  Again, as an example, when you first learnt how to do write a computer
> program, did you wait till you learnt all of the syntax, of C for ex., or
> did you start? Did you write some software, and build on it, or do you go
> for the end?  A journey of a thousand miles, begins with a single step.
>  I do not say, just do what you can and make up for what you dont know by
> saying 'Jeez, I'm sorry!!'. Do it. Then do it with greater rigour.

Did you go to the computer room when you were 5 years old and start
breaking the things there? When you entered the room you had the common
sense not to break things there didn't you? Similarly, if you are not
qualified enough to do proper pUjA, stick to what you can do. Apart from
this this example is not entirely a good analogy. This is because
smR^iti clearly says wrong performance = bad results. This is not so in
the case of a "Hello, world" program not compiling. If you choose to
disagree with smR^iti, feel free to do it. I don't care.

>  When you first learnt the Rudram for example, did you always say it
> right? Or did you keep repeating it, and correcting yourself as mistakes
> are made obvious?

smR^iti and traditional practice allows for mistakes in pronunciation
etc while LEARNING it. That's why a guru is there top correct you at
once.

>  It is plain to me that the point in contention is: Do I do it right or
> not at all OR Do it. Are you doing it right ? If not, correct yourself,
> but continue to do it. Go to step one.

I clearly mentioned that it depends on the type of karma. Did you read
my previous posts at all or not? In case of sandhya etc you HAVE to do
it even if imperfectly. In things like shrI chakra pUjA etc you HAVE to
follow the rules.

>  Let me give another case here, albeit a very real one.
>  As a Brahmachari, I have to do the SamidhadhAnam. No questions. And, I
> have been taught a certain set of rules. One of them is, i have to pick my
> own samith (the twig). Another second level rule: the samith should be the
> length of anywhere from the length of my index finger to the length of my
> index finger plus the length of my thumb. Next, the samith should not have
> any forks etc etc.
>  Another first level rule, I must not blow at the Agni. I must use a
> tharbai (grass) to blow at Agni. Next, the samith should be placed east -
> west etc. etc.
>
>  All this is fine. But where do I go for samith in this country, and how
> am I supposed to light a fire in my house without setting the fire and
> smoke alarms off!!!! What is the approximation here? Is an approximation
> allowed in the first place? You must agree with me that performance of
> SamidhaDhanam is as much a nitya karma as the Gayatri. Now what do I do?
> Blissfully do it with certain approximations, or not do it?

You don't seem to understand or even read what I wrote. Again, in case
of nitya karma-s not doing it is WORSE than doing it improperly. Read
this sentence carefully and figure out the rest.

>  So you see, my point is never that it is ok if rules are not followed.
> There is no laziness to learn the rules. There is no absence of effort.
> What would you do in such a case? (I believe you are a Brahmachari too.
> *-) What is that you infact do?)

First read my previous posts carefully. And what bussiness is it of
yours what I do? I never say what my spiritual practices, except perhaps
people who I consider very close to me. Why, do you plan to take me on
as a guru? :-)

As I said, go ask the people I mentioned, my question. I am betting $500
(raing the stakes) that they'll disagree with your ideas.

Rama.
>From ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU Wed Jul 15 08:38:15 1998
Message-Id: <WED.15.JUL.1998.083815.0400.ADVAITAL at TAMU.EDU>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:38:15 -0400
Reply-To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
        <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
        <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
From: sadananda <sada at ANVIL.NRL.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: pUja
Comments: To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
        <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <19980714190451.26559.qmail at hotmail.com>
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Anand - your analysis sounds logical and pleasure to read.  I do agree that
vedic mantras have to be chanted with proper intonations - sound and its
vibrations have their own effects on the mind.  So it is better to do it
with proper intonations than without.  More than the intonations, knowing
the meaning and chanting - this includes even the simple sandhyaavandanam,
is far better than doing without knowing the meaning.

Now if one does not know proper intonations ( perticularly those who grow
up in the south and leared the chanting in one way and go to north and
listen to the chanting of the same mantras - one will have a shocking
experience),  it is still better to chant rather than not to chant,
particularly if the mind dwells in the meaning and become contemplative.  I
have a feeling that Lord Naraayana, although may be jarring to his ears,
will be compasionate enough and take the bhakti part and leave the rest.
If it is too unbearable, He will be forced to send a proper teacher to
train his bhakta. But the ball is in His court.

To join you on the lighter side, I have to tell a story published once in
nR^isimaha priya (TTD Publication).

There was once a devoted lady who was chanting daily Mukundamaala
(Kulasekhara virachitam) with full devotion. There is a sloka with the
meaning to the effect  "I surrender at your holy feet".  Somewhere in her
childhood, she learned the sloka wrong with distorted version that has
opposite meaning, " you surrender at my holy feet".  She was enthraaled in
the chaning - Mukundamaala is so devotional, she was fully immersed in the
Krishna Bhakti.  One day One sanskrit pandit happend to be a guest in her
house and after hearing her chanting, he told her what she is doing is a
greatest apachaaram (sin) by chanting wrongly. He  told what it means and
corrected her.  She was devastated after knowing the error she commited,
not once but for all these years - she was crying day and night for the sin
she has been commiting without knowing.

It appears that the Lord Krishna came in the dreams of the Pandit next day
and gave him good thrashing- why should the pandit bother where she is at
Krishna's feet or Krishna is at her feet. Krishna said she is a very
devoted soul  and He loves to be at the feet of such devotees!  So He
directed the pundit to go back to her and tell her that he was mistaken and
that he was wrong in correcting her and what she was doing is right for
her. The pundit had all the burns on the body due to Krishna's thrashing.
To releave the pain he had to rush to the lady in the middle of the night.

After hearing the pandit, the old lady was enthralled and went back to
chaning in her own way immersing herself in the Krishana bhakti.

My final input to this topic is this  - yes things should be done as best
as one can and according to the manuals.  In the final analysis, the
intended result being what it is, the devotee is relieved from unnecessory
mental agitations, if he has the Eswararpita buddi.

- although it is hypothtical, in the  Kanakadaasa story,  if he had known
Purusha suuktam even in a distorted way and chanted immersing in his
devotion, I do not think Krishna would mind.  Ultimately what he cares for
is the devotion and not the chanting per sec.  Without a tint of devotion,
chanting is of little use. That is the reason I quated two B.G. slokas
-patram pushpam and yat karoshi ... in my prvious posts - to say that it is
not my statement but Krishna's from smRiti only.

I have no disagreements only a different perspective.

Hari Om!
Sadananda



> This discussion is interesting, but unfortunately it seems to be
> generating a lot more heat than throwing light! Let me add my own
> comments hoping that my contribution is towards the light-side (pun
> not intended) and not the heat-side. (Don't forget it is summer now;
> we don't need to generate heat anymore. :-) )
>>
> Anand
>

K. Sadananda
Code 6323
Naval Research Laboratory
Washington D.C. 20375
Voice (202)767-2117
Fax:(202)767-2623