message to my friends

[Gummuluru Murthy]

On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Vidyasankar Sundaresan wrote:

> The problem is this - if the answer that is given by the intellect and by
> logic is not the Truth, and also if Sri Shankaracharya uses "impeccable
> logic" - how does one decide that a particular logic is impeccable except
> through the use of the intellect? And how about the concept of "viveka"?
> Isn't it a reference to the right use of the intellect?
>
> The question I ask is not only not unfair, it is one of the most important
> concerns within all Vedanta. To say that the jagat is in me, again raises
> the same questions, which have been asked for thousands of years now. As I
> see it, the beauty of Advaita teaching is in using logic and the intellect
> to ultimately overcome logic and the intellect. This does not mean that
> you simply ignore logic and intellect.
>
> If one throws out logic and intellect completely, it is worse than
> throwing the baby out with the bathwater - it is a refusal to even bathe
> the baby in the first place. That is not very useful, is it? You bathe
> the baby, then you throw out the bathwater.
>
> Vidyasankar
>

I did not mean the question is unfair in a negative sense. If I did give
that impression, my apologies.

What I meant was:

The answer to your question is:  Yes, the world is real.
Can there be any other answer to it in the vyavahArika ?
[But that answer is untrue in paramArtha. I used that as an example
where the conclusion drawn by the intellect based on logic fails in
the end. That does not mean, we do not use the intellect; intellect and
logic are the only tools we have; but need to recognize the limitation
of it.]

I used the VC verse to show that the jagat is a mahA svapna *only*
in the paramArtha.

I think you would agree with the above two statements.

I commented on Shri Shankara's "impeccable" logic:  Shri Shankara in VC
made the disciple say that jagat is in mahA svapna only after the
disciple's realization and not before realization. That is an
important difference in my view and shows the beauty of Shri
Shankara's writings and teachings.

If my understanding of this verse is wrong, or if I mis-interpreted
Shri Shankara, I very much welcome your comment and clarification.

Regards
Gummuluru Murthy
------------------------------------------------------------------------

>From  Wed Aug 12 14:14:43 1998
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:14:43 -0400
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To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
        <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
From: Ram Chandran <chandran at ECON.AG.GOV>
Subject: Re: message to my friends
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Vidyasankar Sundaresan <vidya at CCO.CALTECH.EDU> writes:

> As I see it, the beauty of Advaita teaching is in using logic and
> the intellect to ultimately overcome logic and the intellect. This
> does not mean that you simply ignore logic and intellect.

> If one throws out logic and intellect completely, it is worse than
> throwing the baby out with the bathwater - it is a refusal to even bathe
> the baby in the first place. That is not very useful, is it? You bathe
> the baby, then you throw out the bathwater.

Beautifully said! Truth is the residual after the negation of the lies.
VIDYA can be obtained only after the removal of Avidya.  Advaitic
theology follows the logic similar to the well-known mathematical
methodology - Reduc-tio ad ab-sur-dum (disproof of a proposition by
showing an absurdity to which it leads when carried to its logical
conclusion).

Similarly, there is no such entity as "no desires." No-desire itself is
a desire and the scriptures suggest that the only way to reach the
desire-less state is to desire the Grace of Ishwara through Sadhana!
The scriptures also imply that the only way to go beyond the intellect
(overcome logic) is to reach the desire-less state!

Note:  I am glad to see the presence and postings of Vidya who always
brings VIDYA and Vivekam to this Forum.  I want to thank him on behalf
of members like me for his excellent contributions and I request him to
continue his excellent postings.

Ram Chandran
Burke, VA