Which substratum? (was: Gaudapada's Karika)

[Allan Curry]

Namaste

Vidyasankar writes:

>In most language associated with a mystical insight, paradox plays a great
>role. Logic cannot tolerate paradox, and it is extremely difficult, if not
>impossible, in my opinion, to prove anything about the basic substratum of
>the universe. Even within the highly orthodox darSanas, there are those
>who hold that it is futile to hold that there exists such a substratum, or
>that even if one exists, it is futile to say that it is pure non-dual
>consciousness.
>

>From a strictly intellectual viewpoint, I can see some good reasons why
the above statements may have been made...

>Bharati touches upon precisely these points, and he also holds that the
>mystic's insight is psychological at one level, and that any claim to
>invest it with ontological significance is fraught with danger.

Yes! precisely so. I might rephrase that as "fraught with ambiguity",
but the point is taken...

>.....................................................Yet, what
>are we without our beliefs and faith? Within a given set of beliefs, I
>think the ontological claims may be supported, but to make universal
>statements outside the belief system can be very tricky indeed.
>

Exactly right!

>Of course, doubt is always good to test the limits of any philosophical
>system. But what I am saying is that some basic statements of any system
>will have to be accepted without proof. If this is belief, there you go.
>

It also may be possible to BE the truth without ever being able to
describe it or explain it to anyone else or even to oneself.  Philosophical
systems may be read into this or read out of this, while all the while
"things are as they are".  Perhaps it just doesn't matter what the truth
is, as long as there is the certain understanding that we ARE that, always
have been, always will be.  There never was nor could be anything but that
-- *whatever* that actually may be.    :-)

Thank you all for your very thoughtful replies to my assorted whining!
I am probably going to have to wrestle with it for some time to come
but I won't bother you with it anymore. You have been very kind in the
circumstances and  I appreciate your efforts more than you may know...

all the best,

Allan Curry
>From ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU Wed May 28 10:16:30 1997
Message-Id: <WED.28.MAY.1997.101630.EST.ADVAITAL at TAMU.EDU>
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:16:30 EST
Reply-To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
From: Anand Hudli <Anand_Hudli_at_USININ31 at BMC.BOEHRINGER-MANNHEIM.COM>
Subject: Shivaanandalaharii 57
Comments: To: advaita-l at tamu.edu

      nityaM svodarapuuraNaaya sakalaanuddishya vittaashayaa
      vyarthaM paryaTanaM karomi bhavataH sevaaM na jaane vibho |
      majjanmaantara-puNyapaaka-balatastvaM sharva sarvaantaras-
      tishhThasyeva hi tena vaa pashupate te rakshhaNiiyo .asmyahaM ||

       Word meanings

       nityaM - always
       svodarapuuraNaaya- to fill up my belly
       sakalaan - all
       uddishya - having sought (addressed)
       vittaashayaa - (driven by) the desire for wealth
       vyarthaM - futile (in vain)
       paryaTanaM - wandering
       karomi - I do
       bhavataH - Your
       sevaaM  - service
       na jaane - I do not know
       vibho - O all-pervading Lord !
       majjanmaantara - my previous rebirths
       puNyapaakabalataH - due to the strength of the ripening of merit
       sharva - O Shiva
       sarvaantarastishhThasi eva - You only are situated in all
       tena hi vaa - Due to this itself
       pashupate - O Lord of the pashu's (souls)
       te rakshhaNiiyo - to be protected by You
       asmyahaM - I am

       Translation:

       Driven by the desire for wealth and with the intention of filling up
       my belly, I seek all people always and wander in vain. I do not know
       how to be in Your service, O all pervading Lord! (But) from the
       strength of the ripening of merit of my previous lives, O Shiva,
       (I recognize the fact that) You are the inner ruler of all. Due to
       this (understanding of mine) itself, I am to be protected by You,
       O Lord of the pashu's (souls).


       Shankara points out the delusion of the people like us in this verse.
       For the sake of filling his own belly and with an insatiable
       desire for wealth, such a person will work to gain the favors of
       worldly-minded people of wealth and power. All such endeavor will be
       vain.

       Due to the merit accumulated in past lives, such a person may somehow
       realize that God is the inner ruler of all. This person will also
       realize that serving worldly masters is absolutely futile.
       Because of this realization, Shankara argues, this person should be
       protected by God.


       Anand