Dream & Waking States

[Gummuluru Murthy]

  I am following the discussion on this topic with great interest. As a new
 entrant
  to the Discussion Group, I would like to look at the archives and refer to the
  earlier discussion on this which Giri referred to in his posting.

  My concept is
  "The dream state is as "real" to the dreamer as the wake-up state
  is perceived to be "real" by the wake-up person. In my view, both states are
 as
  unreal.  The dream-world is created by the dreamer's mind. The dream
 experiences
  are real to the dreamer as long as the dream lasts. The things or events in
 the
  dream-state may look absurd as we see (or recall) from the wake-up state. But
 the
  dreamer in the dream world does not see that. For that person, that state is
 as
  real as the wake-up state is to the wake-up person.

  The only reality is the Turiya, the silent and the continuing witness for all
 the
  three states of wake-up, dream and deep-sleep."

  What I do not understand is the following:
  From the wake-up state, we realize that the dream is all an illusion.
 Similarly,
  there should be a state where we realize that the wake-up state is also an
  illusion. It is not the deep-sleep state. Is it then, we need to see it
 through
  a state with the removal of the veil of ajnana?

  There are two good books which discuss this topic

  1. Man in search of immortality by Swami Nikhilananda (Lecture: Three states
 of
     the soul)
  2. GaudapAda by TMP Mahadevan


  Regards
  Gummuluru Murthy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adau ante ca yan nAsti vartamAnepi tat tathA

                                ...  GaudapAda in mAndUkya kArikA

What did not exist at the beginning and what is not going to exist at the end
is as good as non-existent even in the present.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 -----


On Tue, 9 Jul 1996, M Suresh wrote:

> Giri (gmadras at ENGR.UCDAVIS.EDU) wrote:
>
> >         Did you make this observation in the dream state or in the waking
> > state ? You can only contend that the dream is unreal in the waking
> > state, and not while you are dreaming (unless you are dreaming lucidly).
> > This topic was discussed by Rama and Vidya during the initial stages of
> > this mailing list, and Rama pointed out it is unfair to deny the validity
> > of the dream in the waking state (and maybe he will explain it here again).
>
>   I just skimmed through the logs. The amount to be read was too much to
>   read in detail.
>
>   I agree that I am doing the comparison of the dream state with the waking
>   state standing back from the dream state. But on doing the comparison with
>   the waking state is the waking state not found to be closer to reality?
>
> >         Further, it may be interesting to note that the time to climb
> > stairs, or time taken to count from 1-10 etc (for example) is equal to the
> > time taken to do the same tasks while awake (this has been scientifically
> > proven).
>
>   The incosistency is still there. For example in a dream I might climb 2
>   steps and the next moment I might be somewhere else, which would not make
>   any sense in the waking state. It may be that I never doubted the
>   inconsistency in the dream, but still the incosistency is there. So I was
>   saying that the dream state is not exactly the same as the waking state.
>
> > Namaste.
> >
>
> Namaskar,
> Suresh.
>