Creation Theories in Advaita

[M Suresh]

Namaskar,

  I had posted the below query on SRH a few days back. I am also attaching 2
  replies.

regards,
Suresh.

----------- MY POSTING ATTACHED --------

Creation Theories in Advaita

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>From           M Suresh  <msuresh at india.ti.com>
Organization   none
Date           25 Jun 1996 16:52:32 GMT
Newsgroups     soc.religion.hindu
Message-ID     <4qp5gg$jg4 at babbage.ece.uc.edu>

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I have heard the following four creation theories with reference to advaita
philosophy.

1. Ajaati Vaada ( No Creation ).

2. Drishti Srishti Vaada.

3. Srishti Drishti Vaada.

4. Krama Srishti Vaada ( Gradual creation ).

Does anyone have more information on what these theories are? Are they found
only in the schools of advaita only or also in the vedas/upanishads?

Thanks in advance for any info.

regards,
Suresh.

------------- REPLY BY RAMAKRISHNAN BALASUBRAMANIAN ATTACHED -----

Re: Creation theories in Advaita

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>From           Ramakrishnan Balasubramanian <rbalasub at ecn.purdue.edu>
Organization   none
Date           26 Jun 1996 23:45:34 GMT
Newsgroups     soc.religion.hindu
Message-ID     <4qsi2u$k4 at babbage.ece.uc.edu>

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M Suresh wrote:

I'll give a brief description. I'll try to post some details later when I get
the time. Some other people may give full explanations.

> I have heard the following four creation theories with reference to advaita
> philosophy.
>
> 1. Ajaati Vaada ( No Creation ).

The prime exponent of this school is gauDapaada. This is the viewpoint of a
jiivanmukta. He does not see anything apart from the self and no changes in it.
The question ofcourse arises, what about the world we see? The point is, that
the question occurs only to the un-enlightened and not to persons like
gauDapaada. However he also teaches (2) which you mention below for the benefit
of the non-muktas.

> 2. Drishti Srishti Vaada.

Try gauDapaada kaarikaa for a full explanation. The world as it exists is
explained through the theory of maya very well. shaMkara also goes through lots
of the stock dvaitin objections and their refutations. The view point here is
that the diversity which exists (the world etc) can neither be called as
existing apart from brahman or a "part" of it. (I am planning to write up
something on this, hopefully by the end of summer.)

> 3. Srishti Drishti Vaada.

This does not require any explanation. There are various theories like how
hiraNyagarbha is formed etc and how the various elements are formed. This
theory holds that after realization, the realized people go to brahma loka or
the loka of their ishhTa devata and merge with brahman during pralaya, and are
not reborn.

This theory is usually used to teach novices and for arguments with dvaitins
(by dvaitins I mean anyone who is not an advaitin). However, if one is able to
comprehend (2), (3) is of no use.

> 4. Krama Srishti Vaada ( Gradual creation ).

Never heard of this. Sounds like (3) though.

> Does anyone have more information on what these theories are? Are they found
> only in the schools of advaita only or also in the vedas/upanishads?

(1) and (2) are certainly found in the vedas. Some references are given by
gauDapaada. Ex., "Indra through maya assumes diverse forms" etc. Also the
brihadaaraNyaka upanishhad contains lots of quotes supporting this. There are
other minor upanishhads explicitly using various advaitic terms. (I don't
remember the exact quotes and the sections, so I request the net-vidvans who
demand precise references to bear with me here)

(3) certainly has lots of quotations from shruti. These theories of creation are
meant for novices, according to gauDapaada.

Ramakrishnan.
--
Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said, "The flag is moving." The other
said, "The wind is moving." The sixth patriarch happened to be passing by. He
told them, "Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving." - The Gateless Gate

------------- REPLY BY GIRI ATTACHED -----

Re: Creation Theories in Advaita

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>From           gmadras at pinto.engr.ucdavis.edu (Giri)
Organization   University of California, Davis
Date           26 Jun 1996 23:45:41 GMT
Newsgroups     soc.religion.hindu
Message-ID     <4qsi35$k8 at babbage.ece.uc.edu>
References     1

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M Suresh  <msuresh at india.ti.com> writes:

>I have heard the following four creation theories with reference to advaita
>philosophy.

>1. Ajaati Vaada ( No Creation ).

>2. Drishti Srishti Vaada.

>3. Srishti Drishti Vaada.

>4. Krama Srishti Vaada ( Gradual creation ).

>Does anyone have more information on what these theories are?

>Thanks in advance for any info.

>regards,
>Suresh.

        I think 3,4 are the same.
**
'Talks with Ramana Maharshi' page 421.

Maharshi:
There are three methods of approach in Advaita vada.

1. The ajaata vaada is represented by no loss, no creation, no one bound,
no saadhaka, no one desirous of liberation, no liberation. This is the
Supreme Truth. (Mandukya Karika, 2.32)
        According to this, there is only One and it admits of no discussion.

2. Drishti Srishtivada is illustrated thus : Simultaneous creation. There
are two friends sleeping side by side. One of them dreams that he goes to
Benares with his friend and returns. He tells his friend that both of them
have been in Benares. The other denies it. The statement is true from the
standpoint of one and the denial from that of the other.

3. Srishti Drishtivada is plain (Gradual creation and knowledge of it).

**

Regarding concepts [of creation etc], let me quote Ramesh Balsekar :

Concepts can at best only serve to negate one another,
as one thorn is used to remove another, and then be thrown away.
Only in deep silence do we leave concepts behind.
Words and language deal only with concepts, and cannot approach Reality.
Ceasing to conceptualize means ceasing to perceive objectively,
which means perceiving non-objectively.
It is to see the universe without choice or judgement and
without getting into subject-object relationship.
What happens then? Nothing, except that you are what you were
before you were born: everything

**

        Maybe this is a good subject for the advaita mailing list. Namaste.

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