[Advaita-l] Does the mukta/jnani see the world?

[Krishna Kashyap]

Please expand the abbreviations SDV and DSV. I have some ideas about these
two. But wanted to be sure.
*Best Regards,*

*Krishna Kashyap*




On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 8:48 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Michael Chandra Cohen ji.
>
> avidyA appears only from the frame of reference of avidyA. From the frame
> of reference of Brahman, there has never been avidyA, never been any
> appearance of avidyA.
>
> The teaching "avidyA is mithyA"is from the frame of reference of avidyA in
> which VedAs or teacher-disciple transaction takes place. From the frame of
> reference of Brahman, it is ajAta.
>
> Whether jnAnI sees the world -- in answered in Advaita as per the model SDV
> or DSV. These being two prakriya with the former ultimately leading one to
> latter.
>
>
> In SDV, avidyAlesha  and jIvanmukti are accepted.
>
> In DSV, neither avidyAlesha nor jIvanmukti are accepted.jIvanmukti
> reference in shAstra is accepted to be arthavAda.
>
> Questions need to be posed in a model, a prakriyA.
>
> On Sun, 12 Nov 2023, 19:47 Michael Chandra Cohen via Advaita-l, <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Does the mukta/jnani see the world?
> > from: Sri Swami Satchidanandendra Saraswati (SSSS), Sugama (SKT -
> Version);
> > Section 71 (tr. Hishi Ryo ji):
> > (English tr. follows)
> > विनष्टत्वात् कथं भेदज्ञानानुवृत्तिः ? तदभावे च कथं
> > शिष्येभ्यस्तत्त्वज्ञानोपदेशः ? तदनुवृत्तौ स्वयमज्ञस्य कथमाचार्यत्वम् ?
> > बाधितानुवृत्तिस्वीकारेऽपि कथं मिथ्याविषयत्वनिश्चये सत्युपदेशाय
> प्रवृत्तिः ?
> > कथं च नित्यनिवृत्ताज्ञानस्य भगवतोऽर्जुनं प्रति गीतोपदेशः ?
> > तस्माद्विद्याविद्यास्वरूपविभागोऽयमसमञ्जस एवेति न प्रतिभातिति चेत् । अत्र
> > प्रष्टव्यो भवान् । किं द्वैतसत्यत्वबाधकमद्वैतज्ञानमङ्गीकृत्येदं
> प्रश्नजालं
> > प्रतायतेऽथवा अनभ्युपगम्येति । तत्र प्रथमे कल्पे तावन्न प्रश्नो नापि
> > चोत्तरम् । न ह्यद्वितीय तत्त्वज्ञाने सति पुनरपि किञ्चित् चोद्यम् भवति ।
> > द्वितीये तुकल्पेऽज्ञदृष्ट्या सर्वोऽप्ययं व्यवहारोऽवकल्पत एवेति न
> > कस्यचिदाक्षेपस्यावकाशः ।
> > न ह्यद्वैतसिद्धान्ते ज्ञानोत्पत्त्यज्ञानबाधगुरुशिष्यभेदोपदेशादिकं परमार्थ
> > इत्यभ्युपगम्यते प्रपञ्चसद्भावतनिवृत्ती वा पारमार्थिके इति ।
> > द्वैतज्ञानसन्दूषितचित्तानां तु शिष्याणा क्रमेण बोधनायेदं सर्वं
> > प्रक्रियारचनमिति नात्र किंचिदसामञ्जस्यम् यथाऽऽह भगवान् भाष्यकारः
> > "एकस्मिन्ब्रह्मणि निरुपाधिके नोपदेशः, नोपदेष्टा, न च उपदेशग्रहणफलम्"इति।
> > Interpretation/Translation:
> > How can there be a continuance of duality (knowledge of difference,
> > bhedajñānānuvṛttiḥ)) after it has been sublated ('eliminated')? And
> because
> > it has been sublated (i.e. absence of wrong knowledge), how can there be
> > any instruction of knowledge of reality to students? And in the case
> > (bhedajñānānuvṛttiḥ) continues, how can such an ignorant assume to be a
> > teacher? Even when such a continuation of what has been sublated
> > (bādhitānuvṛtti) is accepted, how can there be an engagement ('activity)
> of
> > teaching the Truth when the subject matter has been (already) determined
> to
> > be wrong? And how was the teaching in Bhagavad Gita by the Lord to Arjuna
> > possible who is eternally devoid of it [i.e. ignorance]? Therefore, one
> > should ask if this division of knowledge and ignorance is (itself)
> proper.
> > (Consequently), are these questions (objections) from the perspective of
> > Non-Duality ('by acceptance of non-reality) that contradicts duality, or
> is
> > (non-duality) not at all accepted? In the former, there is no need for a
> > question or response, as there is no question or response from the
> > perspective of Non-Duality/Brahman. In the second case, however, all
> these
> > questions are conceived from the perspective of ignorance, so there is
> > (also) no room for these (valid) questions (or objections).
> > According to Advaita SiddhAnta, i.e. from the perspective of ultimate
> > reality (paramArtha), [concepts such as] liberation, avidyA gets (really)
> > eliminated, a distinction between teacher and disciple etc. is certainly
> > not accepted. Rather, the cessation (sublation) of understanding the
> > world/duality (as 'real') is considered the ultimate truth.
> > (However) for disciples whose minds are (still) influenced by dualistic
> > notions (i.e. ignorants), this prakriyA (i.e. adhyAropApavAda) is
> gradually
> > shaped towards their liberation. There is nothing inappropriate, as the
> > revered bhAShyakAra says:
> > "(Nevertheless, in case you think that) when the one unconditioned
> Brahman
> > is realized as the only reality, there is neither instruction nor
> > instructor nor the result of comprehending the instruction (BrUP 2.1.20
> Bh.
> > Sw. MADVH)."
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